Spring opening cloudy pool excessively high PH > 8.2

[PoolDoc]

Hi JuJu;

A few quick notes:

1. Add more plain 6% household bleach BEFORE your pool turns green -- about 2 gallons at a time, added in the evening.
2. LOWER THAT PH LEVEL! Get at least 2 gallons (see below about borax), and lower your pH to below 7.6!
3. Get the K-2006; this page explains details about getting kits: How-to-Get-the-Right-Testkits-for-your-Pool
Report complete results, once you have them.
4. Consider doing borates to 50 ppm (ie, BioGuard Optimizer). You'll need the test strips, about 15 boxes of 20 Mule Team borax, and about 5 gallons of muriatic acid. Borax makes a pool a bit more forgiving, and also, a bit more 'sparkly'.
5. Plan to lower your alkalinity -- you do this by lowering the pH to just under 7.0 and aerating . . . and then adding more acid as the pH rises.
6. One-time-per-week pool care is very much on the low end of things. You don't need to be so precise on everything, but you DO have to maintain an adequate chlorine level ALL the time. "Adequate" is determined by stabilizer level. Read the "Best Guess" page, for more. (Linked in my signature.)

About opening and closing: Opening requires no special equipment, in most cases. If you know what bits go where, you can do it yourself. If not, watch this year, and DIY next year.

[aylad]

2. LOWER THAT PH LEVEL! Get at least 2 gallons (see below about borax), and lower your pH to below 7.6!

Just to clarify, he's wanting you to get 2 gallons of muriatic acid to lower the pH--Borax raises it...

Janet

[PoolDoc]

Yes.

Thanks, Janet.

[JuJuBee]

18 Apr 2012

Thank you Doc and Janet - I'll get to work on all this right away and report back.
It's so nice to have a plan of action!!!

Judith

19 Apr 2012

Janet, we used an HTH 6-way test kit I bought 2 years ago that could check for CYA. I never used the kit...I only needed the phenol red bottle. When my husband transferred the cloudy solution to the CYA view tube, the black dot on the bottom never disappeared even when overflowing. I've already ordered the recommended test kit from Amazon and expect it should arrive today or tomorrow. I'll use that to check the CYA. Can't tell if my BioGuard products contain calcium. They don't list all the other ingredients anywhere on the containers and not even their websites. How can I find out exactly what ingredients are in a BioGuard product? (because I also want to check for Copper....)

Doc, my husband added only one gallon of the muriatic acid instead of two, (cuz he's a pessimist...) and this morning the pool water is still cloudy but it's a bright, clean blue. He should have added both gallons I'm assuming and I might add the second this morning.

We'll add the bleach this evening but I wanted to check with you first, is it o.k. to add regular chlorine bleach if we have the Bioguard Silk Sticks in our in-line chlorinator around the clock? Is there any problem with both types of chlorine in the pool together? (Sticks are trichlor......?)

I am reading about the borates thingy. What's your opinion of using BioGuard Optimizer over borax and acid? I know it's more expensive, but by the time I found somewhere to buy enough of the borax and acid, the price was only a $40 savings but the "steps" involved are more cumbersome initially. Is it just the price or are there some other things in the optimizer that don't belong? Can I continue to maintain borates with borax and acid after initially getting there with BioGuard???

Thanks! no rush, too cold to swim...

[PoolDoc]

How can I find out exactly what ingredients are in a BioGuard product? (because I also want to check for Copper....)

Tell me the EXACT product name; Waterbear and I have most of the MSDS sheets.

Doc, my husband added only one gallon of the muriatic acid instead of two, (cuz he's a pessimist...) and this morning the pool water is still cloudy but it's a bright, clean blue. He should have added both gallons I'm assuming and I might add the second this morning.

Since it's mixed, check the pH, first!

We'll add the bleach this evening but I wanted to check with you first, is it o.k. to add regular chlorine bleach if we have the Bioguard Silk Sticks in our in-line chlorinator around the clock? Is there any problem with both types of chlorine in the pool together? (Sticks are trichlor......?)

Yes, it's OK -- but it's good that you asked. Add the bleach directly to the pool -- when the pump is ON, and running. Yes, they are compatible, once they are in the water.

I am reading about the borates thingy. What's your opinion of using BioGuard Optimizer over borax and acid?

Optimizer *IS* just borax; you STILL have to add acid if you use it. (Actually, Optimizer is "5 mol borax" and 20 Mule Team is "10 mol borax". Without getting into the chemistry, the Optimizer is about 30% more concentrated than the 20 Mule Team borax.) BioGuard "Optimizer Plus" is a fairly neutral mix of borax and boric acid -- a good idea, by the way.

But, a 50 ppm borates level with Optimizer+ requires 28# per 10,000 gallons @ $4 / lb. That translates to over $200; way more than the borax + acid. I'm not sure what he's trying to pull, but he's gaming you.

Ask him if he will guarantee 50 ppm of borates -- by Lamotte Borate strips -- with his recommended dose? If he'll guarantee that his Optimzer+ dose will (a) be cheaper than borax plus acid and (b) deliver 50 ppm, it might be fun to go for it . . . but you'll have to fight with him, when your actual borate levels are lower than promised! By the way, the figures I gave you will take you to more like 70 ppm -- but I'm assuming some losses as the season progresses.

[JuJuBee]

19 Apr 2012

Pool Chemicals EXACT product names:

• -BioGuard Maintain Easy Shock & Swim - multi-purpose shock
• -BioGuard Inhibit Back Up - algae preventative & killer
• -BioGuard Maintain Silk Sticks with Silk Guard
• -BioGuard Sanitizer Super Soluble (old version)
• -BioGuard Maintain Super Soluble Sanitizer
• -BioGuard Off the Wall cleaner - thicker formula
• -E-Z Chlor pH Up
• -Pool Perfect+ Phos Free
• -Pool Pride pH increaser
• -HTH Clarifier
• -Pooltrine 60 Algaecide & Water Clarifier - Applied BioChecmists
• -Robarb Pool Specialties Back Wash
• -GLB Pool Care Vanquish - deposit control

Correction: Pool company did not offer to help with borates. I don't usually talk to them unless we have a problem. This year I posted on your site first. I just know we can buy BioBuard Optimizer Plus. I saw that 45 lbs was between $120-$124. The 8 lbs. would be another $25. I did buy the borate strips and expect them to arrive tomorrow with the test kit too.

[PoolDoc]

-BioGuard Maintain Easy Shock & Swim - multi-purpose shock => diluted dichlor -- needs to be disposed of in pool, LATER.
-BioGuard Inhibit Back Up - algae preventative & killer => cheap foamy algaecide -- do NOT use!
-BioGuard Maintain Silk Sticks with Silk Guard => trichlor + MYSTERY ingredients, probably copper or borax
-BioGuard Sanitizer Super Soluble (old version) => dichlor
-BioGuard Maintain Super Soluble Sanitizer => dichlor
-BioGuard Off the Wall cleaner - thicker formula => do not use! (or use in your toilet!)
-E-Z Chlor pH Up => sodium carbonate, washing soda
-Pool Perfect+ Phos Free => do not use!
-Pool Pride pH increaser => sodium carbonate, washing soda
-HTH Clarifier => OK to use, but do NOT overdose!!
-Pooltrine 60 Algaecide & Water Clarifier - Applied BioChemists => Polyquat -- good stuff; save for when you go on vacation
-Robarb Pool Specialties Back Wash => do not use, now! For sand filters only.
-GLB Pool Care Vanquish - deposit control => do not use, now! Mystery soup.