Hayward Pump and Sand Filter Issue

[kevev99]

Hi all. So I wanted to update as to the status of my pesky backwash overflow while filtering. It continued to get worse yesterday. The trickle turned into a full on flow. So in the words of Gordon Ramsay I "Shut it down!" At that point I was full on frustrated and not sure what to do.

I went back and re-read posts from you all to see if I could "see through the cloudy water" so to speak. I kept coming back to one thing: the spider gasket inside the Vari-Flo valve. My thought was this is the only plausible problem. I know that they are supposed to be sealed in place with some sort of adhesive. The reason why everyone says when you replace it to make sure you scrape the channel clean before putting in a new one with adhesive. Well don't you know the spider gasket inside the new Vari-Flo valve I installed wasn't sealed in place. I took the valve assembly off and the thing actually fell out. So I figured that was why there was a leak.

So last night my father-in-law called and offered his assistance to help diagnose the problem. I told him the above about the spider gasket and that at this stage I'm 99% sure it's the issue. He offered to come down and help, more for moral support than anything. We took it apart, took out the gasket, put in a silicone-based water approved sealant (approved for use inside aquariums) into the gasket channel, and reset the gasket. Guess I'll find out tomorrow if it worked.

Thanks everyone for your suggestions and help. Greatly appreciated. I hope this is my solution.

Kevin

[kevev99]

Hi all. Back with an update. So after fixing the spider gasket the leak still occurred. I called a local pool repair guy and explained everything to him. He asked about my eyeball return and I indicated I had a light return in place the apst few years instead of an eyeball. he said it was possible there could be a pressure issue somewhere and that I should replace the light with the eyeball and see if that fixed the issue. I did this last night and it didn't work.

However, I did notice what I will call a pressure "kickback" from the return line to the pool back into the Vari-Flo valve. I started up the pump and it started going, about 5-10 seconds in the where a "kickback" of pressure from the pool through the return line into the Vari-Flo valve, causing the handle to unseat/adjust, which I believe lifted the spider gasket and the seal is then broken. Thoughts on how to figure out where the pressure leak could be so I can fix this?

Kevin

[Poconos]

I think what you're describing is a 'slamming' or 'hammer' effect. You get a mass of fluid moving then slam a valve shut or something to suddenly stop the flow. Fluid tries to keep moving and in your case the weakest point is the variflow valve and it lifts the spring loaded valve mechanism...the handle. I know you don't want to hear this but I never heard of something like this. Even with the return lines totally blocked there shouldn't be enough static pressure to lift that handle. Almost sounds like there is something in the return pipe that gets moving and jams to block the flow. Any kind of motor driven valves in the system that could be doing something unexpected? How about a heater? After this event do you still get flow from the returns? Whatever is causing this can definitely unseat that gasket no matter how well it is glued in. You have one heck of a pressure spike. I think BP may be trying to figure out something like this too.

To summarize:
-- Any chance of some object in the plumbing?
-- Do you still get flow out the returns after the event?
-- Any motor driven valves in the system?
-- How about a heater?

Just think of the satiisfaction you'll have when you solve this problem.
Al

Edit: Thought of something else. Remove your eyeballs to open up the returns and see if anything changes.

[kevev99]

I think what you're describing is a 'slamming' or 'hammer' effect. You get a mass of fluid moving then slam a valve shut or something to suddenly stop the flow. Fluid tries to keep moving and in your case the weakest point is the variflow valve and it lifts the spring loaded valve mechanism...the handle. I know you don't want to hear this but I never heard of something like this. Even with the return lines totally blocked there shouldn't be enough static pressure to lift that handle. Almost sounds like there is something in the return pipe that gets moving and jams to block the flow. Any kind of motor driven valves in the system that could be doing something unexpected? How about a heater? After this event do you still get flow from the returns? Whatever is causing this can definitely unseat that gasket no matter how well it is glued in. You have one heck of a pressure spike. I think BP may be trying to figure out something like this too.

To summarize:
-- Any chance of some object in the plumbing?
-- Do you still get flow out the returns after the event?
-- Any motor driven valves in the system?
-- How about a heater?

Just think of the satiisfaction you'll have when you solve this problem.
Al

Edit: Thought of something else. Remove your eyeballs to open up the returns and see if anything changes.

Hi Al,

To answer - No object in the plumbing. It's a brand new return hose from the filter to the pool. Yes there is flow out of the return (I only have one) and it is excessively strong. No motor driven valves. The only motor is the pump itself that's only 1.5hp. No heater either. It's the hose from the skimmer (brand new) to the pump. The hose from the pump to the valve, and the hose from the valve to the return/eyeball. I have an inline chlorinator to install but haven't done so yet as I want to solve the filtering issue first. I agree it will be very satisfying to solve this. I'll try removing the eyeball tomorrow. Thanks!

Kevin

[kevev99]

Hi all. I have an update: THE FILTER IS WORKING! I talked to another pool guy today. He wasn't sure, but gave me the # for a place in the area that specializes in above ground pools and filters. I called them. The guy I spoke to said he thought the new valve I bought may be defective and they had another in stock. So I go up there tonight to pick it up. Another guy was there and I told him what was up. He said Hayward in the last 2-3 years switched the PUMP and RETURN connections on the Vari Flo valves. So even though the valve looks identical to my old valve, the connections could be reversed. He said before I open the new valve and install it to check the connections. I did, it was connected backwards, I reversed them and now there is no leak and the filter is filtering. So I'll return the unopened valve tomorrow.

Thanks to all for your input, suggestions, feedback, and encouragement. It was very welcome, and I know I can rely on the folks here at the Pool Forum if I have future issues. I know the next thing on my agenda after I use up all the chemicals I have is to figure out how to chlorinate, level ph, and maintain everything using bleach, borax, etc so I can save $$$ on that.

Thanks again - Kevin

[waste]

Kevin, I am so very happy you got this fixed!!

I hadn't heard about that problem, but will keep it in mind, next time I run into a similar issue - thank you!


I really hope the pool won't give you any more trouble, but would like to see you around here anyway

[Poconos]

Glad to hear you solved the problem Kevin. Somewhere buried in the bowels of this forum I vaguely remember something about a variflow being plumbed backwards. Don't remember any other detail. Must have been a Hayward. Why do they do this stuff?
Al

[kevev99]

I know the whole being plumbed backwards thing is odd. The guy at the pool store said it caught him off guard a few years ago. He'd did an install the day before and everything hooked up as expected. Did another install the next, hooked it up as he normally did, and the customer called a day later about a leak. He went back and noticed that the intake/outtake were switched. Swapped the connections and all was good.

Glad he told me about it so I didn't open the box with the new Vari Flo I bought tonight and can return it tomorrow for a full refund.

I'll be around as I'm sure others will post questions about things I've encountered in the past. And I definitely want to wean myself off of pool chemicals and use everyday things to save money. Everyone here is great and I'll be sure to pop in every so often.

Kevin

[Alemeg]

New to the site. Don't know if I am asking this question in the right place but here goes. I'm a rookie at below ground pools but have been able to figure things out so far. My current problem is getting my pool crystal clear. Yesterday, I noticed after asking my wife to turn on the pump. That clouds burst from my two returns in the shallow end of the pool. Pretty sure I have a filter problem. I bought the pool with the house so I don't know how old the filter is. It could be theoriginal (aka over 20 yrs old). It is a Heyward Sand Filter. Pump is working fine. Just looking where to start trouble shooting....or do I just replace the old filter?

Any thoughts where to start?

[aylad]

Alemeg,

The best thing for you to do would be to cut and paste your above post into a brand new thread. Just go to the main page for the AG pool equipment and construction forum, and look for the "new thread" button on the top left of the screen. You'll get more views and helpful information that way. The original poster of this thread pretty much has his problem solved, so this thread isn't going to be getting very much attention from those that can help.

Welcome to the forum!!
Janet