Hayward Pump and Sand Filter Issue

[kevev99]

Hi all. I'm new to the forums, but have a question on an issue that's been driving me nuts since I opened my pool about 2 weeks ago. I'll detail it all out:

Pool and Equipment: 18'x34'x52" with Hayward S230T sand filter with Vari-Flo 6 position valve and Hayward SP1593 Power-Flo Matrix 1.5hp pump - 6th season of use

Problem: Water leaking out backwash connection when filter in "FILTER" position

So I opened my pool up and got everything hooked up. The sand filter stays outside year round and I put the pump in the garage during winter time. However, 2 years ago I did not so it was out all winter (which could be a contributing issue now). Everything is hooked up, I turn on the pump with the filter valve in "FILTER" position and I get water leaking out the backwash connection. I set it to "BACKWASH" and have almost no pressure with water flowing out significantly slower than expected. The only setting that works with no leaking is "RECIRCULATE". I investigate the issue and think I need to put a new Vari-Flo valve on the filter. I order a new one and replace it, as well as replacing 250 lbs of sand, reconnect everything, start the pump, and have no leaking in "FITLER" position for the first 24-30 hours. After that it starts leaking again. I do more investigating and find that it could be the pump. So I take the pump apart as best I can and clean/lubricate the o-rings, but I can't get the impeller off. No screws, but it was stuck. Keep in mind I have heard some sort of a hum hear and there, and I have the same issue of almost no pressure for "BACKWASH" with the new valve.

So my question is: Is the pump going bad? I'm thinking that from the impeller on back to the motor it is possibly rusted/corroded/gunked up, and as a result not rotating at the proper RPMs to push the water through, causing the leak when in "FILTER" and the lack of flow when in "BACKWASH". I've tried smacking the casing with a rubber mallet to loosen any particles up, but no luck. Can somebody help me out with some suggestions before I drop $300 on a new pump?

Thanks.

[waste]

Welcome to the forum!

Sorry you're having this trouble

My first thought, on reading your story, would be that the wagon wheel A/K/A spider gasket in the multiport was bad.

However, is the water still coming out the backwash port with the new Vari-Flo valve?

Does the impeller turn easily by hand? (if yes, read on - if no, the shaft is seized and we can tell you how to fix that )

I'm having a little trouble figuring this one out, but suspect a clogged impeller - have you been vacuuming a bunch of 'crud' (especially the leafy pollen string type)? Or perhaps a leak from the discharge port on the pump itself (rather than the multiport). Or maybe a seal assembly issue, water would leak from underneath the pump, where the motor meets the housing.

Any chance of giving us a picture of the system/ where the water is leaking (photobucket is how I post pics - but you might be able to do it without their service) We may have a simple terminology issue (you call it "X" and I call it "Y") - if we can get on the same page, I'll most likely be able to help you

[Watermom]

Ted --- Unfortunately, temporary members are not able to post pictures. If Kevin wants to bump up to the "subscriber" level, he would be able to though. Just an FYI.

[waste]

Thanks Lisa, I pray all is well with you/ your health and your family!

Could a photobucket link be a 'work-around'? (a link to an outside source to view the pic)

(No! I have no connection to photobucket but, I can use it, despite the fact I'm 'technologically challenged' )

[Watermom]

Sorry. Live links aren't allowed either for temporary subscribers.

[Poconos]

Reading your post several times I have to agree with Ted in that the multiport valve seems to have a problem. Doesn't explain the new one doing the same thing though. Ted is also questioning the source of the leak if I read it right. Valve or pump. That should be easy to determine. As for the pump not running up to speed, unlikely. These motors will run at a pretty constant RPM and if you load them to the point of slowing them down then they would overheat quickly. Another point, the pump has nothing to do with a leaking multiport.
Al

[kevev99]

Hi all. Thanks for the thoughts. To answer Ted's questions:

Yes the leak is still happening with the new valve. It started about 24 hours after install of new valve. When I took pump apart the impeller was able to be moved counter and clockwise albeit slowly and couldn't just be spun. The pump motor also sounds more like it is humming versus the usual sound.

I don't notice water leaking underneath the pump. Maybe from the connection from the pump to filter although it's not a flow leak more of a drip.

I can take photos and email if need be.

Kevin

[Poconos]

Hi again,
Take a look at this thread.
http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=9455

I still don't understand why a new valve would have that problem and really have no further advice at this point. Per that thread you can maybe diagnose the problem further. On the pump rotor not spinning freely......lot of friction somewhere. Only places are the impeller itself with something wrapped around the shaft or the bearings. I assume you broke things down far enough to rule out impeller issues. Bearings would tend to make a grinding noise when they're about to fail. You may want to take the motor apart further to isolate the problem(s). I should also mention that no part of the impeller should touch the pump housing. The clearance between moving parts is small but there should be no physical contact. I could imagine the pump chamber deforming a little due to overheating and causing the impeller to contact its housing but that's grasping at straws so to speak.
Al

[kevev99]

Thanks Al. I got down to the impeller but couldn't get it off. I didn't realize I had to remove the screws at the back of the motor and then put something in the shaft to keep it from moving to get it off. I'm going to give that a try and get the impeller off and take the whole motor apart to see if I notice anything. I'm going to clean it well because I'm guessing there is something in there impeding it from rotating properly.

I talked to a friend of mine who works on motors/generators/turbines and ran my thoughts by him on the impeller and it not rotating right would that cause the flow to be off. He asked about the normal psi and I said 15-20 but it's running about 8-10. It's half of what it should be. He said it could be that. Off to give it a try now and see if it works to fix the problem. Will report back in a bit.

Kevin

[kevev99]

So I just finished taking everything apart and putting it back together. Got the impeller off and there was a little gunk in the spring connected to it so I cleaned it out. Found the hose from the pool to the pump had a leak so I replaced that. I also took the Vari-Flo valve off and cleaned that area out. Put that back together when it was all dry.

It's filtering now but there is still a trickle coming out the backwash connection. I made sure to redo all connections with plumber's tape. Thoughts? Let me know if you still need me to post some photos.

Kevin