Intex questions

[Brokk]

I have a 16x32 above ground pool, 16" sand filter, GPH around 3000 (I forget the exact number) I also have the Intex salt chlorinator. I've been using this setup for 4 years or so.

This year I have replaced the vinyl portion of the pool and I'm trying to upgrade a few other items. The first to talk about is the Intex Auto Pool Cleaner.

It works on the return line. I've always had air bubbles in my return, but I assumed it was something intentional with the attachment on that end. Never really gave it much thought. Now I'm using the return to power this cleaner, and the instructions hammer home the concept that you *must* remove all the air. Well, my return is literally shooting air bubbles down the hose. Why?

The last thing before the return line is the chlorinator. You can see the water passing through. There are no air bubbles, but the released tiny hydrogen bubbles when it is running. So it has to be happening after that. I am at a loss for troubleshooting this. Any suggestions?

Another issue (which may be nothing) is that the auto cleaner seems to *zoom* around the pool, stirring up debris rather than picking it up. Is the flow rate too high? Is this just how it's supposed to work? I'm used to vacuuming slowly by hand. Inching my way across the bottom so that I don't disturb the debris and I can get it all effectively. It takes me 90 min some days. Thus the desire for the auto cleaner... This is my first time running it, so I'll check the pool in a couple hours and figure out if it is really getting clean or not.

I have searched the internet for both problems, but it's difficult finding answers specific to Intex.

[PoolDoc]

There are many possible reasons why you might have air bubbles, but the two most likely are

1. Hydrogen gas produced by your SWCG

2. A small suction leak UPSTREAM of your pump.
However, if you can see into the return stream (@ "the chlorinator") than usually the bubbles would be visible.

So . . . test for hydrogen by disconnecting the power to the SWCG. If that stops the bubbles . . . you've found the source!

I am amazed; is your Intex SWCG still producing chlorine after 4 years? You can test this by grabbing a sample of the water returning to the pool with the SWCG in an ON state, and comparing it with water on the opposite side of the pool.

Regarding your cleaner . . . I've got nothing. I've never even seen one of those units. I can tell you that cleaners in general are twitchy and often require irritating persnickety adjustments. Anyhow, once you eliminate the bubbles, if the cleaner problem persists, I'd recommend calling Intex. They do answer the phone, last I checked!

[Brokk]

There are many possible reasons why you might have air bubbles, but the two most likely are

1. Hydrogen gas produced by your SWCG

2. A small suction leak UPSTREAM of your pump.
However, if you can see into the return stream (@ "the chlorinator") than usually the bubbles would be visible.

So . . . test for hydrogen by disconnecting the power to the SWCG. If that stops the bubbles . . . you've found the source!

I had it off this morning when I was installing the auto cleaner, so when I saw bubbles coming out of the return, the chlorinator was not running. So that's not it.

I am amazed; is your Intex SWCG still producing chlorine after 4 years? You can test this by grabbing a sample of the water returning to the pool with the SWCG in an ON state, and comparing it with water on the opposite side of the pool.

Last year we took the summer off from having a pool. I think that was the fourth summer using it. It was generating chlorine fine at that time. No need to test. I never add chlorine. If it wasn't generating it, then the pool wouldn't have any at all, and it definitely was doing fine.

I do have to clean the "element?" at least twice/season as well as when I pack up the pool for the year.

The only issue I have really had over the years has been if it gets too hot (a week of 100 degree weather without it cooling down much at night), or an influx of biological material (my wife mowed the lawn for me once to be helpful, and didn't pay attention to the fact that the chute was blowing grass clippings into the pool). In both cases it is too much for the typical system that is running and can result in an explosion of algae.

This year I'm adding the auto cleaner and a solar blanket. My wife likes warm pool water.

I replaced the vinyl, because there was a screw up when we first ordered the pool. We only got 1/2 of it and it took weeks to straighten out. Amazon fixed the problem by sending us a complete pool and said "keep the extras". So I have some brand new parts and the vinyl pool was one of them. It was starting to look a bit worn 18 months back when I was packing things up and I knew we weren't going to use it the next summer, so I threw out the old one and this year unpacked the "spare". :-)

We are already on our second pump though. Is it worth it it to buy another one when this one dies, or is there a better grade pump that would be compatible with the Intex setup?

[Brokk]

I'm closer to finding the source of my air bubbles. It's not hydrogen, but it is the chlorinator. Or one of it's connections. I decided to hook the pump straight to the pool and skip the chlorinator. Bubbles are gone. So now I have to take the chlorinator apart and see what the issue is.

The bubbles *could* be my auto cleaner issue as well. As they would make the device lighter and not have as good of a contact with the bottom of the pool. I'll give that a shot tomorrow.

[PoolDoc]

Regarding your equipment questions . . . I don't have personal experience, and too much of the info on the Internet -- even in forums -- is distorted in various ways. The information about above-ground equipment is particularly unreliable.

The simplest answer is: you have a set up that seems to work well for you, and keep the pool clean. I'd stick with it. Changing things around might mean changing EVERYTHING around. For example, you could install a Hayward S210T93S ProSeries 21 . . . and it would likely out perform what you have. But you'd need to install a ball valve between the pump and filter: the pump is -- as is TYPICAL -- much too big for the filter.

In the pool industry (as in so many others) "New & Improved" is often a lie, and almost never really true! Keep in mnd, "updated engineering" usually means "engineered to SELL!".

Good luck!

[Pappy]

We are already on our second pump though. Is it worth it it to buy another one when this one dies, or is there a better grade pump that would be compatible with the Intex setup?

As far as I know, nothing is compatible with Intex connections. There are some adapters available to convert Intex to standard pipe fittings, but I have no clue about the quality.

Example: https://www.amazon.com/GAME-4560-Con...=intex+adapter

I'm in the process of upgrading my pump/filter to "standard" equipment. I'm replacing the Intex "thru-wall" connections with these

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

These allow you to plumb any standard 1-1/2" or 2" filter and pump you want. I found a deal on a Pentair .75 hp 2 speed pump that I'm pairing with a 21" Hayward sand filter. Should be much quieter and more efficient than my current Intex system, and filter better to boot.

I was going to go with a Hayward Powerflo Matrix pump, but I found a used Pentair Whisperflo on Amazon.

My filter system cost more than the pool did, but I figure that a good filtration system on a mediocre liner is way better than a marginal filter on the best quality liner in the world.

[PoolDoc]

The WhisperFlo is almost certainly too big . . . unless you get at least a 24" sand filter.

Manufacturers play games with horsepower ratings. A 3/4 HP Whisperflo will probably push more water than a 1.5 HP Powerflo, and will push the dirt THROUGH the filter, if you don't mate them properly.

Look at the differencee between these bulkhead fittings:

Hayward SP1023 bulkhead fitting
Hayward SP1023G bulkhead fitting

I think you want the 2nd one. Here's the Hayward manual, and a PoolCenter page that explains more. Depending on shipping costs, the Pool Center may be cheaper, too.

Please let me know which bulkhead you use, and it works.

PS: I'm still working this page, but you may want to look at it and this one, to see what I mean about HP vs flow vs filter capacity

[PoolDoc]

Uh-h. Hi Pappy. Didn't pay attention to who was posting.

The Whisperflo IS too big, but you should be able to run it on low, virtually all the time. You'll probably need to put a throttling valve between the pump and filter. If you adjust it to avoid excess flow on high, it will have no effect on low, but will keep you from accidentally blowing all the sand out during backwash.

[Brokk]

I'm closer to finding the source of my air bubbles. It's not hydrogen, but it is the chlorinator. Or one of it's connections. I decided to hook the pump straight to the pool and skip the chlorinator. Bubbles are gone. So now I have to take the chlorinator apart and see what the issue is.

I took it apart, probably more than I should have. However, the chlorinator also has an Ozone generator as part of it. It diverts some of the water flow through the clear tube on the outside where you see the process with the Chlorine and the titanium plates, but there is also some water flow through the middle where you don't see it. Ozone is generated and pulled into the water flow at that point. That seems to be the source of my bubbles. It's basically pulling air into the water stream and the generated ozone goes along for the ride. Basically it is intentional.

So I'm kind of stuck. Unless I unhook the O3 generator and block off the tube. Really worried about messing with it though.

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"Ozone is made by drawing air through Corona Discharge (CD) cells that break down oxygen molecules, which then recombine into ozone molecules. Ozone gas is introduced to the pool circulation line using a venturi injector. Water passing through the injector creates a suction that pulls the ozone gas into the water. The ozone dissolves in the water. Ozone can oxidize some contaminants and most bacteria."

That pretty much describes what I'm seeing... Not all models have it though. So perhaps I should bite the bullet and get a newer model without the Ozone.

[PoolDoc]

Plug the ozone generator . . . it's not doing anything useful.

Pool owners don't realize that ozone is more toxic than chlorine gas. In Germany, ozone is used in commercial pools. And I think most public aquariums in the US use it. But doing so requires special, very expen$ive equipment AND full time trained operators to keep it safe. US ozone systems for pools are 'made safe' by making so little ozone that there's no danger to you . . . or to any bacteria in the pool!

Basically, they are a scam. What's worse is that most US systems aerate the water, and strip carbonate alkalinity, which causes plaster damage to concrete pools!