Cloudy water not clearing

[Maurie]

We recently killed algae in our intex pool, but we can not clear the cloudiness (it's opaque). We can't hold the chlorine. Here are our last numbers from yesterday. We've been running the filter non-stop, changing filter twice a day. Our pool is listed as holding 6981 gal, but pool store calculates about 7500 gal.

FC 1.6
TC 1.6
CC 0.0
But it all fluctuates

PH 6.9
Hardness 170
TA 167
CYA 10
Copper 0
Iron 0
Total dissolved solids 1000

The pool store keeps telling us to add muriatic acid to bring down TA but it has only helped a little. Now we have a really low ph. Then we put in ph plus, but it doesn't bring it up enough. We keep adding shock, but can't hold the chlorine level.

I've been doing a lot of reading. Not sure we have been given the correct advice. I'd like to use up what chemicals we have ( if possible) and then switch to BBB. Thanks for the help.

Maurie

[Watermom]

What kind of shock are you using -- meaning ingredients.

Your pH is a little low. Use some 20 Mule Team Borax (laundry aisle at Walmart) to raise it. Start by adding about a fourth of a box slowly to the skimmer while the pump is running, breaking up any clumps. After a couple hours, retest pH and redose as needed until you get the pH between 7.2-7.8 with 7.4-7.6 usually considered ideal.

Below, I've cut and pasted some of our getting started info that you may find helpful.

Get a cheap OTO (yellow drops) / phenol test kit, or if available at YOUR Walmart (check availability), get the HTH 6-way DROPS test kit, which is compatible with the Taylor K2006. Test the pool as soon and you can, and post the results. If you get the 6-way kit, ALSO test the water you FILL the pool with, especially if it's a well, and post THOSE results as well. (The HTH is the best available kit you're likely to find locally, but it's not the K-2006. It can only provide rough measurements chlorine levels above 5 ppm, and it measures "TOTAL" hardness, rather than "CALCIUM" hardness, which is not ideal.)


+ Having a good test kit makes pool care easier for EVERYONE. A good test kit means a kit that can test chlorine from 0 - 25 ppm, pH, alkalinity, calcium hardness, and stabilizer with reasonable accuracy. Test strips (AKA 'guess-strips' ) do NOT meet this standard. Some pool store testing is accurate; most is not. The ONLY way you'll know whether your pool store is accurate or bogus, is by testing accurately your own self. On the other hand, pool store 'computer' dosing recommendations are NEVER trustworthy -- ignore them. They are designed to sell more chemicals than you need, and WILL cause many pool problems.


+ We recommend the Taylor K-2006 test kit, which meets the requirements above, for many reasons. The HTH 6-way drops kit is a great starter kit, and is compatible with the K2006 (it's made by Taylor). There are a few alternatives; for example Lamotte makes an FAS-DPD kit that's OK -- but it costs 3x as much. But, we're not aware of any test that is better, and since we are all familiar with the K-2006 (and can help you with it) we recommend it exclusively ( Test kit info page )



+ Buy some plain 6% household bleach, about 10 gallons per 10,000 gallons in your pool. You can switch to other products, later. But bleach will work, in almost any sort of pool mess, without complicating side-effects.


+ If you need stabilizer, and have access to a Sams Club, buy their 24lb pack of 1# bags of 100% dichlor shock. Each bag will add about 7 ppm of chlorine, and about 6 ppm of stabilizer, per 10K gallons of water. Otherwise, order dichlor from Amazon:

Kem-Tek Dichlor 22 lbs

We do NOT recommend buying dichlor locally, otherwise, at least until you are an EXPERT reader of chemical labels. The chlorinating pool chemicals sold at Walmart, Kmart, Costco, and most other local stores are diluted blends, sometimes with copper and other products with bad side-effects.


+ Do NOT add pool store goop -- phosphate removers, clarifiers, flocculents, metal 'removers' & sequestrants, and especially, algaecides -- without instruction from us, or at least, a VERY specific reason for doing so. All of those products have side effects that you probably don't understand yet. Most are sold to pool owners who do NOT need them. Many will make things worse if over-used. Some (algaecides, phosphate removers) usually make things worse if used at all. Rarely, you may actually NEED one of those products.


+ It's much easier to answer your questions, when we know something about your pool. We often 'waste' the first few posts back and forth collecting information. So, please complete our new Pool Chart form -- it takes about 30 seconds, but will save much more than that.

Pool Chart Entry Form
Pool Chart Results

[Maurie]

Will do ASAP. My computer crashed and typing on this iPad stinks. I should be getting a new laptop this weekend. Thanks for the current info.
Maurie

[Watermom]

My computer crashed and typing on this iPad stinks.

Yes it does! I spent a lot of time in a hospital with a sick friend recently and also did some traveling last weekend. Both times I got tired of lugging my laptop around and thought maybe I would like an iPad. I played around with my niece's iPad for awhile one afternoon and realized that I do NOT want one. Yes, they may be small and sleek but you are right, they are a pain to type on. I guess with practice I would have to improve (I only have 'up' to go cuz I couldn't do it worth beans) but even still, it made me realize that the iPad is not for me!

Good luck getting the new laptop. We'll be looking for your pool info when you get a chance to enter it.

[Maurie]

Well, it took awhile to get a new computer, but all is well (not with the pool though). We have been running the pump all day and cleaning filters twice a day, but it hasn't improved much. I can see a few inches deeper...maybe the lenght of my forearm, but no where near the bottom. I filled out the pool form. My husband has been taking care of the chemicals. He has been using HTH products - chlorine tablets, shock, algaecide, clarifier, and maybe the stabilizer and conditioner. With guess strips we are reading chlorine about 3-5, ph around 7.2 maybe higher, and TA about 180. We did but the HTH drops kit, but I haven't read the directions yet. Please let us know what else you need to know to help us and what we should do at this point. Thanks.

[aylad]

The best thing you can do to help us help you is to stop using the strips and start using the HTH kit. Strips simply are not reliable or accurate enough to clear up a problem.

Stop using the algaecides and clarifier--they will tend to make your problems much worse instead of better. In fact, once you throw enough of the mystery stuff in the pool, then it's really hard to help get it straightened out because things start reacting unpredictably. Check the chlorine tablets you're using, and make sure that they don't contain copper. Adding copper will add another dimension of difficulty to managing your water. Also, we really need to know the ingredient in the "shock" that you're using, and a good set of current test results, taken with your HTH kit.

There are three reasons right off the bat that I can think of that will cause cloudy water that's not clearing: 1) you just need more time to filter out the dead algae that you killed off--and AGP pumps/filters are notoriously mis-matched, so it often takes a long, long time to filter out dead algae, and 2) You haven't killed off all the algae yet--which is a very big possibility given your water temps and strip testing, and 3) The "shock" you're using is actually cal-hypo, which is why we keep asking for the ingredient. Using cal-hypo with water already high in hardness and TA will cause milky, cloudy water. And....it's possible that you have all of those problems at the same time. So.....

In order to rule out algae that's not dead yet, you need to test your chlorine levels at night and again the next morning before the sun hits the pool. Compare the two numbers, and if you've lost more than 1 ppm of chlorine in that time, then we know there's something in the water eating it up and you need to shock the pool and hold it at shock level until you can go all night without losing chlorine. To do this, you're going to need an accurate CYA level, because your shock level depends on your CYA level.

To rule out calcium being the problem, you need to test your water for calcium hardness--that test is in your HTH kit as well.

Once you've determined whether the problem is in the water or in the filtering, then we'll need to look at your filter. Are you running the filter 24/7? Is the pressure rising on your filter as the pump runs? What, if anything is washing off the carts when you clean them?

[Maurie]

I just used the HTH drops kit. Tonight, if I plan on waking before the sun, I will do the chlorine test. However, the drops kit tested the same as the strips have been testing, but we'll see. Here are todays results. These are after a good rain this morning as well.

Chlorine - 5ppm
pH - 7.2
TA - 240ppm
TH - 370ppm
CYA - <30ppm (the black dot did disappear before the tube overflowed but it was above the 30 mark)

So, it seems alot needs fixing. I'm sure with our high TA and TH, mixing with the cal-hypo hasn't been good. Please advise on what products to use intstead and the next step. I will report the chlorine ASAP.

We are running the filter 24/7 except unplugging when it rains. I'm not sure if the pressure rises. How can you tell? We have seen a cartride "collapse", but not frequently. When we clean the filters, they are yellowish. The usual dirt, mosquitos, etc. cleans off with a sometimes yellowish grime in the slats.

Thanks.

[PoolDoc]

One thing you can do to help is get better cartridges. The Intex cartridges are cheaper, but don't last long and don't filter as well. If you get 2 Unicel cartridges and clean them properly, they should not only improve filtration, they should last all summer:

Unicel C-4607 Replacement Filter Cartridge (Easy Set Size A or C) @ Amazon @ Amazon
Unicel C-5315 Replacement Filter Cartridge for 15 Square Foot Intex B Filter @ Amazon

[Watermom]

Don't use the shock that you have if it is cal-hypo. Instead, either use bleach or dichlor. (Please go back and reread post #2 about dichlor if this is what you want to use.) Let us know which you plan to use and then someone here will help you go from there.

Also, the limits on the chlorine test that the HTH 6-Way kit can show is 5. (That is one reason we like the Taylor K-2006 because it can test high chlorine levels.) So, when you get a chlorine reading of 5 on your kit, all you know is that it is 5 or higher. You can force it to read higher although it does lose some accuracy.

Read here: Testing Without a Good Kit

Try and keep your chlorine at shock level which would be around 12. See the Best Guess Chlorine Chart in Ben's signature. As your CYA level comes up, so does your shock level.

[Maurie]

I'm fine with using bleach. Saving money sounds good too. I do know the HTH drops don't test the chlorine high enough, but I can't afford the Taylor kit currently. I will have to use the best guess method. Can someone clarify? I read it several times and the method doesn't make sense to me.

I retested today (with HTH drop kit):
Chlorine - over 5 ppm - on strips it read around 10 ppm
pH - 7.5
TA - 240 ppm
TH - 400 ppm
CYA - 30-35 ppm

The water is still cloudy. It started to turn a light green color. It's possible we haven't killed all the algae. I know the TA and TH are also adding to the cloudiness in combo with the calc-hypo. Of course, our filter isn't the greaters either.

What steps should we take at this point to try and clear the water? We are still running the filter practically 24/7 and cleaning cartridges once or twice a day.

Thanks for the help.