AG Pool wiring and other headaches

[The Raddish]

My wife and I bought a house in August that came with a pool. I've posted about it a few times here. Needless to say, the previous owner was an idiot whose answer to everything was "Shock it!"

I was planning on replacing the liner next weekend, but have had to push that project back. I was crawling around under the deck today to see what I needed to do to the wiring, and it appears that I need to rip up everything the previous owner has done and start from scratch.

Following is my progress in general so far, and I'll follow up with my questions. To date, I have accomplished the following:

• I have almost completely rebuilt a portion of the deck where the previous owner had spans of 38" without joists. This was where the ladder was located.

• I have cut out the old liner, which I am regretting having done. The pool completely drained over the winter. There were multiple patches on the liner when we got the pool, and it has not been water tight since we bought the house.

I cut the liner out about 6" from the top of the pool so that I could leave the top rails in place for structural integrity. My intention was to get the sand fixed up this weekend and cover it with plastic so that I can put the liner in next weekend. However, we had a few bad storms and I collected about 4" of water last night, which I am siphoning out as I type this. However, now there are leaves and 'crud' in the sand that I will have to deal with. I also have a hole with rust in one spot of the wall I need to sand/repaint, and plug with some JB Weld.

• In inspecting the wiring, I found that the the pump was wired with UF-B that is buried about 4" in the ground. The old and defunct Aqualuminator was on the same circuit. The 14AWG pump wire was 'spliced' with electrical tape to some UF-B that went to a switch located about 18" off the ground on a 2x4 stake.

• The pool is not bonded at any location.

They are lucky they didn't kill themselves swimming in this mess.

My altered plan of attack:

• Rip out all wiring, all the way back to the electrical box by the house. Fortunately, I'm only about 20' from the house, so it won't be a HUGE deal to do this.

• The breakers are all GFI 15Amp, so I guess that saves me from having to install GFI outlets at the pool itself. I still have to replace the UF-B with the correct wiring in conduit for both the auxiliary outlet and the pump circuit.

• Bond the pool with 8AWG wire. Not sure of the best approach for this at the moment.

• Replace the pump wire with 12AWG rubber.

• Set the 4' x 3' fiberglass pad that I bought on which to place the pump and motor. It was easier than trying to pour a concrete pad in such a cramped space.

Once all that is done, I can tackle the interior of the pool with cleaning up and leveling out the sand and then replacing the liner.

My wiring job is pretty simple. I have three lights outside the deck area that are wired to a switch on the deck. They are all UF-B, and will likely remain that way. I'd have to dig up the deck to bury conduit for these lights. They have their own GFI circuit that they do not share with anything else.

The other two circuits are the auxiliary circuit which will have two outlets. One on the deck for utility purposes, the other under the deck near the pump for the new Aqualuminator that I bought.

The last circuit will be a dedicated pump circuit. The only problem I foresee with this is that I already bought a pump timer, but it does not have a twist-loc plug. It's just straight three-pronged 120V. It is 15Amp, though, and it weatherproof. I'm debating using it anyway instead of buying a new one.

I do intend to put a switch in line before the pump so that I can easily turn it on and off for backwashing, etc.

I guess the purpose of this post is to look for pointers, or to see if I'm heading in the right direction. I have a copy of the 2002 NEC as it pertains to pool wiring, but I don't have experience with pools, so I hope to draw on some of your experiences to help me on my plan of attack.

Any and all comments/criticisms are welcome. I'd like to do this project correctly.

[CarlD]

I think I'd find a reliable electrician, especially to bond the pool--remember that bonding cable needs to be green and single core, not stranded cable.

I use 2x2 pavers under my pump and filter. Works just fine.

Otherwise, check your town codes on pool wiring. They are weirder than you think.

[duraleigh]

Hey, Raddish,

It sounds like you've got a pretty good grip on electrical. "JohnT" posts here frequently and knows pool wiring and bonding extensively. You might consider sending him an email or PM if he doesn't chime in.

I'm pretty sure that bonding wire needs to be bare..........not green insulated.

There's a couple of other posters who "get it" on this complex bonding issue........you guessed it...I'm NOT one of them . I'm sure you'll connect with someone who can look over your shoulder a little.

Kudos on being willing to tear out someone else's crap. That's mentally tough to do but you know it's the right thing. Sounds like you'll have a nice setup.

You'll get lot's of help with your liner install and your pool chemistry on the forum when you get ready for it.

[The Raddish]

Thanks for the replies.

There is NO CHANCE that I will hire an electrician. As an electrical engineer I know that I am fully capable of tackling this project on my own. I just want to make sure I do it right.

This is how I intend to wire the pump circuit.

[JohnT]

The current requirement is for #8 wire or larger, insulated or uninsulated. It's pretty tough to get insulated wire through all the connections required on a metal wall pool. The code is usually interpreted as one bonding point on each panel section, so above grounds are usually done every bottom rail section. I like to see the uprights done as well.

My recommendation is to go to an electrical supply store for the bonding clamps, although you can probably get a better deal on the wire at a homecenter. The homecenter will never have enough clamps in stock. I like to use self drilling screws for convenience. Make sure everything metal within 5 feet of the pool or that touches or could touch the water is connected to this wire. Also the pump motor, any heaters, slide bases, metal fence, railings ladders etc.. No ground rod is required.

The code for pools was changed quite a bit in the 2005 NEC, and is going to be changed more in 2008. Mostly for clarification, although the changes for concrete pools were significant.

[The Raddish]

You'll have to excuse my lack of knowledge on some of the pool terminology. When you say every bottom rail section, I have 17 panels, so that is seventeen connections, right? Also, when you say you like to see the uprights done as well, you mean all 18 of them? I'd like to make this as safe as possible, but all 18 isn't feasible for more. Some I will not be able to get to because of the way the deck fits against about a quarter of the pool. There is enough room for a small child to crawl around down there, but not enough for even a teenager, let alone a full grown adult.

I can't say that I see myself tearing down the deck to do this.

When attaching the ground clamps, I'm assuming that two series strands will be fine, going each way around the pool and connecting at the outlet box as in my schematic, correct?

Where on the rail is the best way to attach the lugs? I don't want to weaken the rail or push against the side panel in any way.

By any chance, do you have any pictures of some attachment points that you could post?

Also, the run from the circuit breaker to the outlet box, what kind of wire do you recommend? Would MC be alright to take from the breaker panel to the pump outlet box? Could I use one MC cable for both the pump and axillary outlet circuit (obviously keeping the circuits separate)?

[b2001]

I'd have to dig up the deck to bury conduit for these lights.

My apologies if I'm missing something here, but at least in my area - code is to bury cable and conduit 18 inches deep out in the open but conduit and cable can lay on top of the ground under a deck ...

[The Raddish]

A large portion of the deck is about 20x20, just above ground level. The three exterior lights are on three sides of the deck with the pool and higher levels of the deck on the fourth side.

I just got in from yanking up the old UF-B cables a few minutes ago. I was mistaken about the orientation earlier.

I have four circuits, each on a 15A GFI breaker.

1). Pool pump.
2). Auqaluminator.
3). Axillary outlet available from on the deck, about 12' from the pool.
4). Circuit for the three exterior lights, which are all more than 15' away from the pool anyway.

Also, I did find that there is a grounding rod at the circuit breaker near the house, so the wiring is not quite as bad as I thought. It was buried in some ground cover and I missed it when looking for it previously, but since I cut some of the ground cover away while digging up the UF-B, I came across it.

The UF-B was just below the surface of the grass, maybe two or three inches at most. I'm starting to dig the trench tonight. It's only a run of just over 16', so I should get it dug by tomorrow.

[CarlD]

Code in my town allows insulated bonding--but the insulation must be green.

Only reason I suggested an electrician is they need to know code to get licensed. If you know the codes, you don't need them.

[JohnT]

You'll have to excuse my lack of knowledge on some of the pool terminology. When you say every bottom rail section, I have 17 panels, so that is seventeen connections, right? Also, when you say you like to see the uprights done as well, you mean all 18 of them? I'd like to make this as safe as possible, but all 18 isn't feasible for more.

It really depends on the construction of the pool. There is really no standard interpretation of code for bonding the metal walls. Usually, if the parts are connected metal-to-metal with screws or bolts, that is considered one piece. Some inspectors may disagree. The more that is bonded, the less you are depending on these non-electrical connections to perform as electrical connections.

When attaching the ground clamps, I'm assuming that two series strands will be fine, going each way around the pool and connecting at the outlet box as in my schematic, correct?

Your schematic shows a ground point on the bonding circuit. Not needed, and could potentially introduce problems. You are establishing an equipotential plane, where everything that a swimmer might contact is at the same voltage. It doesn't matter what that voltage might be, as long as it's the same everywhere. When you bond the pump motor, you will be connecting via the motor housing to the house ground. Adding that second ground point could be a problem. The best way to wire the bonding circuit is one continuous piece of wire, with the end tucked back into the first clamp on the pool. Buried splices are more difficult to handle, and the clamps are easy to feed wire through when the screw is loose.

Where on the rail is the best way to attach the lugs? I don't want to weaken the rail or push against the side panel in any way.

By any chance, do you have any pictures of some attachment points that you could post?

No pictures, sorry. Where to attach is a case-by-case deal. Sometimes it's obvious, sometimes not. Retrofitting would be harder. Anyplace that gets to each section is better than nothing, IMO.

Also, the run from the circuit breaker to the outlet box, what kind of wire do you recommend? Would MC be alright to take from the breaker panel to the pump outlet box? Could I use one MC cable for both the pump and axillary outlet circuit (obviously keeping the circuits separate)?

I won't play electrician on the power side and give advice. I will say don't splice grounds going to the pool area to reduce the likelihood of a failure. My background is that I am an electrical engineer who has a neighbor who is an electrician. He got into a mess with an inspector over code, and I mediated the whole mess, as niether one of them knew what was right. Now they both call me for help on Article 680. At least the neighbor brings beer . Most electricians don't understand 680, and worse, won't admit it.