AG Pool wiring and other headaches

[The Raddish]

You'll have to excuse my lack of knowledge on some of the pool terminology. When you say every bottom rail section, I have 17 panels, so that is seventeen connections, right? Also, when you say you like to see the uprights done as well, you mean all 18 of them? I'd like to make this as safe as possible, but all 18 isn't feasible for more. Some I will not be able to get to because of the way the deck fits against about a quarter of the pool. There is enough room for a small child to crawl around down there, but not enough for even a teenager, let alone a full grown adult.

I can't say that I see myself tearing down the deck to do this.

When attaching the ground clamps, I'm assuming that two series strands will be fine, going each way around the pool and connecting at the outlet box as in my schematic, correct?

Where on the rail is the best way to attach the lugs? I don't want to weaken the rail or push against the side panel in any way.

By any chance, do you have any pictures of some attachment points that you could post?

Also, the run from the circuit breaker to the outlet box, what kind of wire do you recommend? Would MC be alright to take from the breaker panel to the pump outlet box? Could I use one MC cable for both the pump and axillary outlet circuit (obviously keeping the circuits separate)?

[b2001]

I'd have to dig up the deck to bury conduit for these lights.

My apologies if I'm missing something here, but at least in my area - code is to bury cable and conduit 18 inches deep out in the open but conduit and cable can lay on top of the ground under a deck ...

[The Raddish]

A large portion of the deck is about 20x20, just above ground level. The three exterior lights are on three sides of the deck with the pool and higher levels of the deck on the fourth side.

I just got in from yanking up the old UF-B cables a few minutes ago. I was mistaken about the orientation earlier.

I have four circuits, each on a 15A GFI breaker.

1). Pool pump.
2). Auqaluminator.
3). Axillary outlet available from on the deck, about 12' from the pool.
4). Circuit for the three exterior lights, which are all more than 15' away from the pool anyway.

Also, I did find that there is a grounding rod at the circuit breaker near the house, so the wiring is not quite as bad as I thought. It was buried in some ground cover and I missed it when looking for it previously, but since I cut some of the ground cover away while digging up the UF-B, I came across it.

The UF-B was just below the surface of the grass, maybe two or three inches at most. I'm starting to dig the trench tonight. It's only a run of just over 16', so I should get it dug by tomorrow.

[CarlD]

Code in my town allows insulated bonding--but the insulation must be green.

Only reason I suggested an electrician is they need to know code to get licensed. If you know the codes, you don't need them.

[JohnT]

You'll have to excuse my lack of knowledge on some of the pool terminology. When you say every bottom rail section, I have 17 panels, so that is seventeen connections, right? Also, when you say you like to see the uprights done as well, you mean all 18 of them? I'd like to make this as safe as possible, but all 18 isn't feasible for more.

It really depends on the construction of the pool. There is really no standard interpretation of code for bonding the metal walls. Usually, if the parts are connected metal-to-metal with screws or bolts, that is considered one piece. Some inspectors may disagree. The more that is bonded, the less you are depending on these non-electrical connections to perform as electrical connections.

When attaching the ground clamps, I'm assuming that two series strands will be fine, going each way around the pool and connecting at the outlet box as in my schematic, correct?

Your schematic shows a ground point on the bonding circuit. Not needed, and could potentially introduce problems. You are establishing an equipotential plane, where everything that a swimmer might contact is at the same voltage. It doesn't matter what that voltage might be, as long as it's the same everywhere. When you bond the pump motor, you will be connecting via the motor housing to the house ground. Adding that second ground point could be a problem. The best way to wire the bonding circuit is one continuous piece of wire, with the end tucked back into the first clamp on the pool. Buried splices are more difficult to handle, and the clamps are easy to feed wire through when the screw is loose.

Where on the rail is the best way to attach the lugs? I don't want to weaken the rail or push against the side panel in any way.

By any chance, do you have any pictures of some attachment points that you could post?

No pictures, sorry. Where to attach is a case-by-case deal. Sometimes it's obvious, sometimes not. Retrofitting would be harder. Anyplace that gets to each section is better than nothing, IMO.

Also, the run from the circuit breaker to the outlet box, what kind of wire do you recommend? Would MC be alright to take from the breaker panel to the pump outlet box? Could I use one MC cable for both the pump and axillary outlet circuit (obviously keeping the circuits separate)?

I won't play electrician on the power side and give advice. I will say don't splice grounds going to the pool area to reduce the likelihood of a failure. My background is that I am an electrical engineer who has a neighbor who is an electrician. He got into a mess with an inspector over code, and I mediated the whole mess, as niether one of them knew what was right. Now they both call me for help on Article 680. At least the neighbor brings beer . Most electricians don't understand 680, and worse, won't admit it.

[The Raddish]

I really appreciate your input, JohnT. Between you and 680, I think I mostly have everything figured out.

Yesterday I dug up the old UF-B and started digging my trench to the pump. Today, I completely ripped out the old wiring with the exception of the auxiliary outlet and the area lighting circuit (which turned out to be on the same circuit after all). I also started fabricating the conduit in large pieces, and tomorrow I'll complete the wiring and conduit, with the exception of the bonding which I'll finish up during the week, weather permitting.

What I have done is put in 3/4" conduit from the breaker box to a T-junction under the deck. The conduit is buried about 14" or so, which is deeper than the 12" required by 680. Since I have GFI outlets at the breaker I didn't have to go 18". Out of each end of the T-junction I have reduced down to 1/2" conduit.

Out of one end of the T-junction will be the Aqualuminator branch circuit, wired with 12AWG THHN to a simplex outlet. It's a straight run without any breaks. The outlet is about 12' away from the edge of the pool, about 4' off the ground.

Out of the other end of the T-junction are both the pump circuit and the auxiliary outlet/area lighting circuit. The axillary outlet is also 12AWG THHN, and the pump I went with 10AWG THHN. The 10AWG is probably overkill, but it wasn't much more expensive than 12AWG, so I figured I'd step it up a bit.

Both circuits terminate at the pump outlet box, which is 8' from the edge of the pool and about 24" off the ground. Technically, this outlet should be a twist-lock but my timer is not twist lock and I'm not buying a new one at this point. If/when the timer goes out, I'll replace the simplex with a twist-lock simplex outlet later. I also have a switch for the pump run out of this box to a closer location on the deck for easy access to shut down the pump circuit.

In the same junction box as the pump simplex (but not connected to the pump circuit) is the axillary outlet circuit, which I am changing over to the existing UF-B that is already run to the axillary outlet and the area lights. The axillary outlet itself is just over 10' from the edge of the pool and the lights are all much further than that, so UF-B is legal to use for it according to 680.

I am not installing an earth ground at the pump simplex outlet as shown in my schematic. I am instead bonding about a dozen points on the pool itself to the pump housing. I'll stop by a pool supply store this week to ask about the best places for this, hopefully using some of the pools they have on site as an example.

If anyone is interested, I'll draw up another schematic later to show the final product and post it here. I'll also post some pics of various parts when my wife brings our digital camera back from her business trip in a couple weeks.

Again, thanks to everyone for their input on this thread. It was greatly appreciated.

[matt4x4]

Wow, after reading all that, it gives even more reason to buying resin pools - I only had to bond my wall!
Sounds like you're on track with everything, Hope you're swimming soon after all that work!

[NWMNMom]

Can someone explain "bonding" and some of the wiring requirements, why that is all needed? We are getting an AG pool and have a GFI panel close by (20') so expect to plug in right to that. Are these pump/filter set ups supposed to be hard wired? We don't plan on pool lights - our merc vapor yard light is right next to the pool area.

[JohnT]

Can someone explain "bonding" and some of the wiring requirements, why that is all needed? We are getting an AG pool and have a GFI panel close by (20') so expect to plug in right to that. Are these pump/filter set ups supposed to be hard wired? We don't plan on pool lights - our merc vapor yard light is right next to the pool area.

Bonding is a wiring scheme that connects everything conductive associated with and near the pool so that it all remains at the same voltage if some electrical mishap occurs. You can only be shocked if you touch two things that are at different voltages, like the ground and a power line. Even if an electrical appliance fell into a properly bonded pool and the GFCI didn't trip, you wouldn't be shocked because everything you could touch would be the same voltage. (Any volunteers to prove it ) Bonding has nothing to do with the power system.

AG pumps are normally required to have twist-lock connectors, and the 20 ft won't meet code in some areas.

As to the light, if you want a pool full of bugs, you've found the answer. 15 years ago when we installed our first AG, it was about 30 ft from an outside light. It was bug city every morning. The best solution to lighting I've found is the citronella torches. Much more pleasant than anything electrical.

[prh129]

NWMNMom,

Have you checked with your local building inspector to see if permits are required? I had to get a permit for the pool itself and I had to have a licensed electrician pull a permit for wiring the electrical connection to the pump.

The pumps typically come with a 3' cord so if your panel is 20', you will need to install an outlet closer to the pump. The electrical code limits a "flexible cord" to 3' so you aren't allowed to use an extension cord.

"Bonding" ties all of the metal parts of the pool structure together so that they are all at the same voltage. If you look up in the National Electrical Code, Article 680 talks about the requirements for a pool and that's what this discussion has been referring to.

Peter