Electrical Terminology & Safety Tips

[BigTallGuy]

As an aside, the GFCI protected circuit does not need a ground connection to the GFCI to be protected. GFCI devices are designed to measure differential currents between the hot and neutral conductors, and open the circuit if that difference exceeds the trigger, around 5 milliamps. It is assumed that any difference in current is being diverted out-of-circuit by a body somewhere. Naturally, a ground is required by the circuit according to code, but it is not necessary for the GFCI feature to function.

O.K. I bonded My pump motor and SWCG control unit together and ran the Bonding wire to the ground of the GFCI, if current from any source (say a bad extension cord as a bad example) was to somehow enter the Bonding/Grounding wire wouldn't that trip the GFCI? Or Does the GFCI only measure the currents between its own conductors?

[PoolDoc]

Just wanted to jump in here, because this is a critical subject, and some of the answers may not stand out to people.

1. Bonding and GFCI's protect people,
not equipment.

2. Breakers and fuses protect equipment.
People not so much, except indirectly by preventing fires.

3. Licensed electricians are better than unlicensed ones . . . usually,
but in my experience, many licensed electricians, and some inspectors, are clueless around pools.

4. To fully protect people, you should BOND every fixed piece of metal a wet swimmer could touch.
(Codes may require more or less than this. You should obey electrical codes, too. At least, most of the time. Or if you are going to be inspected. )

5. Codes sometimes allow discontinuous bonding via the rebar mat. This is NOT a good idea.
Sometimes what was a continuous electrical connection in the mat becomes discontinuous. Use a full length bare copper wire, from start to finish.

6. Codes sometimes allow conduit grounding. This is another bad idea, around pools.
Conduits get disconnected: been there, got the shock, cussed out the electrician. Fortunately, did not die! Use a continuous wire ground around pools.

7. All bonding mats are "grounded" intrinsically.
But, if you ground to the box, you can get currents going. I don't like unplanned currents around pools. So, if you 'ground' your bond wires to the box, use a BIG wire for the bond and a SMALLER one for the ground-to-the-box connection. There are obscure electrical reasons for doing this. By the way, if your pump is correctly wired AND bonded, your bonding system will ALWAYS be connected to your ground system. (Unless you are using conduit grounding -- see below.)

8. Grounding your 'bond' system to your box or panel can prevent weird corrosion issues.
Again, not gonna explain this. But it's much better to prevent these sorts of issues than figure them out.

9. Make FRICKING sure that you have a CONTINUOUS wire ground from your local wire panel back to your main distribution panel.
Code may not require this, but you should. Again, got the shocks on this one. No, I do NOT like conduit grounds. Ever. Except maybe in the dry desert. Not near pools. Not in wet restaurant kitchens (where I got fried, while working as a plumber.) Maybe where nothing but camels and horny toads live. Or, maybe not even there.

10. Shocks and wet people who want to keep living don't go together.
Electricity can usually find an easier path to follow, than through a dry person with shoes on. Electricity can usually NOT find an easier path to follow than a wet nearly naked person. You have to work specially hard around pools to make sure that the easiest path is not through you, your family or friends!

11. Think about the drips!
And, I don't mean the jerks who become your close friend right about the time your pool is being finished. I've seen a lifeguard get a bad shock because they 'dripped' into a GFCI protected receptacle that was mounted horizontally, rather than vertically.

12. Speaking of GFCI's, they fail around pools. A lot.
Sometimes they fail 'safe' tripping every time you look at them. Sometimes, they fail 'DANGEROUS', and won't trip when you try to weld your extension cord to your pool ladder. (Or, when a lifeguard drips into the receptacle!) Check yours today, and several times each season. There's a GOOD reason for that little red or yellow button on your GFCI.

13. Do not bring electricity into the pool area from outside the pool area.
OK, I confess. I'm the idiot who did this, with an extension cord. All those electrical safeties in your pool area don't mean squat if you drag electricity in from elsewhere. Not one of my brighter moments. Pay for a 20A receptacle off the pool panel, when you do the pool.

14. Electrical boxes should not be closer than 12" to the dirt. Ever. No matter what the code allows. When you put electrical boxes in the dirt, or even that close to the dirt, they WILL get wet and dirty. Probably not while there is still a warranty on the work, but soon after. Every SINGLE 'sealed' commercial pool light junction box I've ever opened was full of water. In fact, "sealed" electrical boxes seem to be much better at keeping water in, than at keeping it out.

Hm-m-mh, that's all that comes to mind, right now.

Ben
"PoolDoc"

[CarlD]

Ben put it well:

GFCIs are to protect people from electrocution. They do NOT protect the circuit from too much current. The slightest imbalance between the hot and neutral should trip them.

Breakers and fuses protect the circuit from too much current so the wires don't heat up and start a fire.

Too many workman pull out the third prong on plugs. This is, frankly, insane, especially when they work outdoors. My father did that constantly and to this day I'm amazed he died of lung cancer and not electrocution! I pulled apart his bench lathe as we were selling the house for my mom and in the switch box...he had bypassed the ground yet again! (the lathe is powered by a Jacuzzi pump motor--with Dad cutting out the ground). The switch went into the trash! When the lathe is set up again, it will be wired correctly.

Most towns and cities don't allow "Conduit grounding" or, more properly, a "mechanical ground" requiring, instead, an electrical ground.

For bonding, my town requires the ground to be insulated and green-jacketed. Also it's something like #8 wire--very, very heavy and everything metal is connected to it.

[bhawleyusa]

Do aboveground pool codes differ? I have a oval 33' that is one large sheet of steel connected together at the skimmer. There is a wooden deck surrounding the pool. The 110v pump uses a 3 prong plug into a GFI connected to the main panel thru 4 conductor romex. All pipes and ladders are pvc. Should the pump be bonded to the pool? Should there be a separate ground from the pump to the panel ground?

[CarlD]

As far as I know the AG rules are the same--maybe even more so since more metal is exposed.

[BigTallGuy]

Do aboveground pool codes differ? I have a oval 33' that is one large sheet of steel connected together at the skimmer. There is a wooden deck surrounding the pool. The 110v pump uses a 3 prong plug into a GFI connected to the main panel thru 4 conductor romex. All pipes and ladders are pvc. Should the pump be bonded to the pool? Should there be a separate ground from the pump to the panel ground?

I really don't know how you could effectively bond an Above Ground pool. The theory of bonding one of the dozens of metal pieces found in an AG pool would be the same as a "mechanical ground" or a "conduit ground". Even grounding one spot would probably require sanding down to bare metal and attaching a bonding wire, exposing the area to rust. Owning 5 or 6 different AG pools over the years, and having half of them installed professionally, none of the pool frames themselves were bonded, nor have I ever seen anything in the owner/installation manuals requiring a bonded frame. I suggest you contact your local Building permit dept.

[CarlD]

Perhaps because my AG is a bit unusual, the bonding makes more sense. It's a self-standing steel truss based structure--very heavy. Each long side is a 2.6' wide by 4" high truss 40' long--and weighs in at close to 900#. These, along with the buried cross braces are all bonded. A special clamp, made of brass or bronze (I think the later), attaches the wire to the member being grounded.

[BigTallGuy]

Ben is spot on right regarding electricians:

Just because an electrician drives a truck with lightning bolts and light bulbs painted on the side, doesn’t mean they know anything about swimming pool electrical needs. There are some electricians, both licensed and unlicensed, that will tell you that they are the best thing that ever happened to electricity since the light bulb, that they can wire swimming pools in their sleep, and you don’t want to trust the lives of your children to anyone else.

So what do you do? Who do you trust? How do you go about hiring someone to install or repair your outdoor electrical pool circuit without getting ripped off or ending up with shoddy electrical work?

The answer is simple. You do your homework.

You should have a basic idea of what you need BEFORE you ask a contractor for a bid. A new circuit should include a solid copper wire ground all the way back to the breaker panel, a GFCI in the circuit, and complete proper bonding. You should know how many outlets you want, and how many electrical devices you plan to run on this circuit. If you plan to run a Flat Screen TV, a Refrigerator, an Ice Maker, a Stereo sound system, and/or additional lights, etc. all on your pool circuit, you must plan for them, and for any additional future needs. Remember what Ben said; “Don’t bring electricity into the pool area from outside the pool area”. The key is up-front planning. The MINIMUM size circuit I would ever install for a pool regardless of how short the run or number of devices would be a 12 gauge wire with a 20 amp breaker. You may need a larger size wire and breaker depending upon the length of the circuit and the number of devices on the circuit. If you are repairing an existing circuit, make sure you bring it up to code with a GFCI, as well as proper bonding and grounding.

Once you have a basic plan of your electrical needs, call any of the different agencies such as the BBB or Registry of Contractors, or as I previously stated, the Building Inspection Office or the Power Company in your area to get referrals, then you have to check them out. Make sure your prospective contractor is Licensed, Bonded and Insured. Get references, check their credentials, and question the living daylights out of any prospective contractor by asking simple questions that you have learned here on this Forum BEFORE YOU HIRE THEM. The prospective contractor will get the idea that they are dealing with someone who knows. When you call or talk to anyone regarding your electrical needs, be sure you tell them that it is electrical work for a swimming pool and that you want a Permit.

You don’t have to understand everything about electricity, but simple questions regarding wire sizes, breaker sizes, Bonding and Grounding, GFCI’s etc. are good questions to ask. Answers like, “Don’t worry about the technical side of this; I’ll take care of it”, or “Trust me, I’ve been doing this for years” instead of answering your questions should send up red flags. If you are not satisfied with the answers you get, get another bid. Don’t hire your brother-in-law (unless he is a licensed electrician), or the first guy walking down the street that says he’s an electrician, or necessarily the lowest bidder. Remember, they are all hungry, they all want the work. If you see something that doesn’t look right, stop the Job and ask the question. Never forget that you are the customer and that you’re paying the bill.

Any contractor that tries to talk you out of getting a building permit should be reported to the Building Inspector’s office and not hired. Any contractor, electrical or otherwise that is worth his salt is not afraid of having his work inspected by the City or County Inspector or anyone else. It is also a good idea to be present for the inspection to watch the inspector do his work to keep him on his toes. No curb-side sign offs. Final payment to the contractor comes AFTER the successful Inspection, not before.

Most Building permit offices should have printed building code requirements for various electrical applications that are yours for free or for a couple of dollars. These electrical requirements don’t even have to be for a swimming pool. Kitchens, bathrooms, garages, or any outdoor electrical circuit all have special requirements. I went to a Hardware store once to buy flush mount (canister type) ceiling pot lights for a bathroom shower stall. “Here you go” says the salesman, “see, it says right here on the box, approved for damp locations” he then proceeded to convince me that a shower stall ceiling is “Damp location”, and the lights were fine. I paid $10 apiece for two of them, smiling that I got off so cheap and installed them. Later, I had to remove and replace them with lights for $40 each. Light fixtures for a shower stall must be rated for a WET location not a Damp location. Luckily no one got shocked as I corrected the mistake before the shower stall was completed, and got stuck with the $10 lights. I simply didn’t do my homework and learned a valuable $20 lesson.

[Skioutty]

14. Electrical boxes should not be closer than 12" to the dirt. Ever. No matter what the code allows. When you put electrical boxes in the dirt, or even that close to the dirt, they WILL get wet and dirty. Probably not while there is still a warranty on the work, but soon after. Every SINGLE 'sealed' commercial pool light junction box I've ever opened was full of water. In fact, "sealed" electrical boxes seem to be much better at keeping water in, than at keeping it out.


I'm an electrician for 24 years and have never seen a dry pipe in the ground ever. They will have water in them from plain old condensation.

[PoolDoc]

Interesting, Skioutty.

I'm not an electrician, but I've had that experience as well. However, I've continued to assume that somewhere -- just not where I was -- there were waterproof boxes that worked. Hadn't thought about the condensation aspect, but given the air / dirt temperature differential, over much of the summer, that makes sense.

I'd be interested in your reaction to conduit grounds, and particularly, grounding via EMT and PVC coated metal flex. I have personally come to DESPISE conduit grounds.

Ben