DE Blowing thru

[candab]

The filter is a Jandy DEL60. I imagine that one or more of the five older grids are perforated and I just missed it. Just wanted to know if anyone else has dealt with this in their dealings with customers. I would rather not have this happen when I'm doing a cleaning for someone other than myself. It would be nice if the pool company would get off the stick and approve me for wholesale pricing. It would save me a bunch of money.

[Watermom]

Just wanted to know if anyone else has dealt with this in their dealings with customers.

Members on this forum are residential pool owners.

[candab]

I figured it was primarily homeowners but thought there were also pool service folks here too.

[Watermom]

Very, very, very few.

[PoolDoc]

I figured it was primarily homeowners but thought there were also pool service folks here too.

When I started PoolSolutions, I got regular 'nasty-grams' from pool dealers and others. When I started PoolForum, I repeatedly had pool service guys register and then start posting, EITHER explanations of how "Ben is doing it all wrong" OR their own 'helpful' posts that were completely contrary to what we teach.

But a lot of water has gone through the filters since then (PS started in 1996 and PF in 1999), and some pool service guys even advertise that they "use the BBB method". So I need to re-work my handling of pool industry members, but to date, I haven't done so.

[candab]

Lol, it's all good. I would probably be inclined to use the BBB method more if I could tote around all the liquid in an efficient manner, but I cant. As it is, I do make an attempt to keep many extra chemicals out of my customers' pools, concentrating mainly on trichlor, cal hypo, and the basic balancing chems, keeping much of the other stuff away unless as a last resort. I am starting to look harder at methods more inline with BBB. Learning curve n all...

[PoolDoc]

@candab: The so-called 'BBB method' is a reference to my methods, and I've NEVER been 'bleach, only bleach, and nothing else but bleach'. It's unfortunate that Carl_D's easy to remember mnemonic reference to those methods is often taken so literally.

When I was servicing multiple large commercial pools, and was buying tanker loads of 15% commercial bleach at $0.60/gallon, obviously bleach was preferable for keeping costs down. But we kept 250 gallon 'tote tanks' at the customer pools, and pumped bleach into them directly from the tanker.

Key 'BBB' ideas include:

1. Focusing on actual chemicals, not brands (baking soda NOT "Balance Pak 100"; HEDP and NOT "The Pink Stuff")

2. Never using unneeded chemicals (like adding calcium in vinyl or FG pools!)

3. Focusing on getting chemicals from the best available source (thus: grocery store chemicals!), and not from pool stores which pushed over-priced branded version, and un-needed additives.

4. Understanding that the correct FC level is dependent on the CYA level. (The idea and rough ranges was mine; Chem_Geek worked out the full analysis, and the fact that -- generally -- your FC level should be 10% of the CYA level, increasing to 20% with green algae and 30+% with mustard algae)

5. Recognizing that most chemicals come with 'side-effects' that may be good or bad, but must be accounted for. (Dichlor is very helpful if you NEED more stabilizer in a pool; otherwise, not.)

6. Recognizing that dealer testing is designed to sell chemicals, and NOT support pool owners. Recognizing that test strips are too inaccurate to be useful. Recognizing that the K2006 test methods (there ARE other kits, but they cost even more) ARE sufficient for most pool care.

7. Recognizing that many pool products which have actual value occasionally, are mostly not needed, and should not be used. (For example, adding a clarifier to a DE filtered pool is almost always pointless.)

8. Recognizing that many common pool chemicals, including linear quats (foamy algaecides), bromide based chlorine 'boosters', silicone foam suppressors, 'oxygen' shocks, etc., are worthless at best and a real problem at worst.

9. Recognizing that some pool chemicals which are quite effective, such as copper algaecides and ammonia based mustard algae treatments, have such severe side effects that they should generally be avoided.

10. Recognizing that pool filters should universally be operated at their commercial flow rates, and not higher, and that the higher flow rates cause many, many pool problems.

11. Recognizing that simpler is usually better. If you can use JUST cal hypo and stabilizer, that's great. I've done that multiple times on outdoor commercial pools. (It takes some special techniques to avoid continuing rise in TA and CH . . . but it's actually SIMPLER that way.)

12. Recognizing that a pool is a pool of water to be enjoyed, and NOT a set of 'test numbers' to optimized. If it's not broken, we encourage pool owners to stop trying to 'fix it', no matter what the BioGuard ALEX print-out says! Pool store 'style' has changed, with regard to which numbers should be 'chased': TDS used to be stylish, but isn't any more. Phosphate levels are still very 'stylish'.

Here's an older discussion of the topic:
http://www.poolsolutions.com/gd/the-...pool-care.html

[Orion]

To answer the OP's original question...

I struggled with a DE Nautilus filter for 15 years. The grids were sneaky in that a tiny, tiny tear would lead to mass amounts of DE flowing straight into the pool, as if I was pumping skim milk back in. After exhaustive visual inspection, I would usually find the culprit as a small tear at the edge of one grid where the two sides are sewn together in a seam. Since I can't sew, it was off to the store for another $30 new grid, sometimes more than one.

But truth be told, I never took all the grids out and stored them inside for the off-season, so likely I was just paying for my laziness each fall.

[CarlD]

Lol, it's all good. I would probably be inclined to use the BBB method more if I could tote around all the liquid in an efficient manner, but I cant. As it is, I do make an attempt to keep many extra chemicals out of my customers' pools, concentrating mainly on trichlor, cal hypo, and the basic balancing chems, keeping much of the other stuff away unless as a last resort. I am starting to look harder at methods more inline with BBB. Learning curve n all...

Be sure to read Ben's link to PoolSolutions.com on the BBB method.

It's really a philosophy that Ben created and I just stuck a label on that seems to have gone almost viral. K.I.S.S. is, of course, a key idea, not a dogmatic demand that you only use bleach, borax, baking soda, Muriatic Acid, and CYA. The one "non-negotiable" part of BBB is you must test, and test properly, with a proper test kit, and the K-2006 is the best there is, because it uses FAS-DPD testing for FC.

Personally, I frequently use Tri-chlor tabs early in the season after I've opened to control high pH and add CYA--but never the "double-acting" or whatever kind. I'll use Di-chlor at times, even Cal-Hypo. Mainly, I use LC, because I can get it, on a unit equivalence basis, cheaper than bleach. I use what is APPROPRIATE.

While I never use pH Up! or other branded products, I will use, and have used Soda Ash instead of Borax...but I buy it as Washing Soda at the grocery.

We also get asked here if the BBB method is compatible with an SWCG. Of course, the answer is: "Yes! Absolutely!" I put in an SWCG system over a year ago, and got excellent advice on it from one of our professional members. I love having it, but I KNOW it doesn't save me money, just saves me time and is convenient. And also TOTALLY compatible with BBB. Why shouldn't it be? It just adds chlorine!