Re-occurring ZOMBIE Algae...

[Waldog]

LOL

But seriously... Here's what I have
18x48 Summer Escapes with Intex 2650 Sand Filter currently using the "TFP Method".
Came over here for help as it seems there are some personality conflicts and no one has responded. :/

Anyways, Hopefully there are more like minded folks here is all I can say.

I'm calling it ZOMBIE ALGAE because it's keeps coming back to life!!!

Put the pool up Memorial day weekend, filled from water truck as we are on a well.
Started using the TFP / BBB Method and all has been good... until... July 4th weekend.

Contracted the dastardly algae bloom after the July 4th weekend. SLAMMED / SHOCKED (whatever you want to call it) and tested afterward had "0" cc's at the end.

I've been using Tandil 64OZ 8.25% bleach from Aldi and my CYA has been 50-60.

All was well for a couple weeks. Fast forward to LAST WEEKEND.

FC LEVEL was 12 when I checked it Sunday morning. Went to the store. Came home a few hours later, and the bottom of the pool was covered in ALGAE. UGH.

Ran tests, started SLAMMING / SHOCKING. Got FC up to 24.
Next morning (Monday) Algae is back! re-tested FC 12, added more bleach.
Went through the cycle til Wed, and CC got to .5 stopped SLAM/SHOCK all looked good.

Came home yesterday all was good. Did some yard work, and went to add some bleach for my "daily dose" and guess who's back!? ZOMBIE ALGAE.

This whole time my FC has not dropped below 12!!!! This is crazy!!! I'm starting to wonder if someone has stock in bleach... LOL

I am not sure what else to do... other than add BORATES. I posed this question elsewhere and I was told not to do it until my SLAM was done. I fail to see HOW that would be relevant, or cause issues.

If borating will slow the NEW algae why not? I have calculated out what I need for my pool and it's roughly 5 boxes of mule team and 1.5 gallons of MA.

Currently my TA is 140... that's a problem... I understand I need to lower it before adding the borates...

I have "safe" MA from Ace Hardware. Is this OK to use for borating? No one seems to want to or be able to ask my question elsewhere.

I do not understand where the algae is coming from. I have removed my steps. I threw all the pool toys in and have been flipping them to coat them in FC... I did not have this problem until after July 4th weekend. BTW, I have been brushing the bottom and sides before and after bleach additions.

We have had CONSIDERABLE amounts of rain here in Florida the past 6 weeks, and I've been using it to my advantage to backwash. My rain gauge has been emptied 3 times at almost 5" full, so we've had close to 12-15" of rain.

I've read people SWEAR that rain does not cause issues but I am not sure what else to think.

Also, my PH has been steady at 7.5, and my last test was 7.2. How can this be if my TA is at 140?

I suppose I need to use the MA I have to lower my TA, and I will need more MA for borating.

So my questions are:
Am I doing something wrong? Does algae come back like this? It's not an all out infestation, but it's just wisps of it on the bottom of the pool

Can I borate and will that help me get a leg up on this? Or is there a logical reason to wait until I clear the pool? (assuming I will be able to)

Am I dealing with mustard algae? As I understand it, borates will not help with mustard algae....

BTW, I have a TF-100 test kit. And I have been running my pump non stop basically since the 4th to keep the pool clear and circulating because this has been ongoing.

Any help or advice you can provide would be great. I would like to make this a lot easier to maintain, but at this point I have went through 4 cases of bleach in two weeks and this does not seem cost effective for what is not even a full out algae bloom!!!

Please help!

Oh and my only other theory is that my bleach is "weak" old...?

Thanks!

[Watermom]

Your last sentence is one of the first things that came to my mind ------ is the bleach from Aldi old and has lost its potency? Maybe use bleach from Walmart. The turnover rate there will be much higher I would think and thus fresher.

I'm going to ask Ben to jump in here and offer his advice to you. Sit tight.

[Waldog]

Thanks WaterMom!!!

My better half should be picking up some Wal-Mart bleach and Borax this afternoon on her way home so we'll see if that helps.

I feel that adding borax either now, or after this is resolved can only help and the cost is not significant for my size pool.

We live in the country and I have enough chores and yard work I need the pool as low maintenance as possible.

And just to be clear, the algae I am experiencing is wispy and the last occurrences have been light per say. The first time it was covering almost the entire bottom of the pool but the water has been clear.

I also have been brushing before bleach and after like crazy.

Also, please feel free to move this to the Algae section! Sorry I posted in the wrong area I just realized...

[PoolDoc]

Interesting, on all sorts of levels. I hadn't heard that TFP was trying to get away from "BBB Method", though I know it irritates some of them that I originated almost all of the ideas behind "BBB". (Chem_Geek did the analysis that explained EXACTLY how those methods worked.) It's kinda funny, really.

Anyhow:

1. Your TA is not a problem, unless you are using a heater or a SWCG. Not sure why they'd tell you otherwise.

2. The ONLY reason not to add borates while your chlorine level is high, is that you may not be able to test pH levels accurately. I'm not sure if Dave's version of my old PS-233 kit is still using Taylor's phenol red blend. If it is, you can test pH levels up to FC=10 ppm. Above that, you need to do a 50:50 dilution with DISTILLED water (available in gallons from Walmart -- distilled, not 'bottled', 'spring', 'artesian', etc.). IF you use distilled, it won't affect the pH much, but will reduce chlorine levels by 1/2.

3. I doubt borates will help much, but they surely won't hurt, so go ahead.

4. For reasons unknown to me (and Chem_Geek), a small percentage of pools are highly susceptible to mustard algae. (It might be proximity to fresh ground water, like rivers and ponds. The two commercial pools I've dealt with, that had this issue, were close to a river.)

5. The ONLY side-effect free method I know of, of helping with mustard algae is very low phosphate levels. I understand that TFP is fairly rabid against using phosphate removers. They ARE rather a pain to use, at first, and the test kits (even Taylors) aren't great. But if you learn to maintain consistently low phosphate, doing so WILL make it easier to kill resistant algae, and will generally make your pool less susceptible to algae. I'm personally using them with good effect on a large 200,000 commercial pool that has ALWAYS --for 25+ years -- been prone to mustard algae.

---------- GOT TO RUN - WILL CONTINUE LATER -------------

[BigDave]

I have "safe" MA from Ace Hardware. Is this OK to use for borating?

I don't know what that is, do you? I don't put anything unknown into my family's pool.

Fresh bleach or not, to shock a pool with 60ppm CYA the FC must be kept above 20 until it loses less than 1ppm FC overnight and CC <= 0.5ppm.

Mustard algae is often greenish yellow to brownish yellow and it seems to prefer the shaded side of the pool and aggregate in seams and small pits in floor. It often disperses easily with a brush or even a wipe of a hand. Mustard algae takes much higher FC levels to kill.

Do you think maybe it's just dirt that's too fine for your filter or never gets in the filter? Did the trouble start after a period of heavy usage - July 4 pool party?

[Waldog]

I don't know what that is, do you? I don't put anything unknown into my family's pool.

Fresh bleach or not, to shock a pool with 60ppm CYA the FC must be kept above 20 until it loses less than 1ppm FC overnight and CC <= 0.5ppm.

Mustard algae is often greenish yellow to brownish yellow and it seems to prefer the shaded side of the pool and aggregate in seams and small pits in floor. It often disperses easily with a brush or even a wipe of a hand. Mustard algae takes much higher FC levels to kill.

Do you think maybe it's just dirt that's too fine for your filter or never gets in the filter? Did the trouble start after a period of heavy usage - July 4 pool party?

I need to take a photo... I will try if it returns... I have a water proof camera and I just thought of that.

But I can describe it... It is mostly green, and it is thin wispy following the bottom pattern of my pool. (LOL) My pool liner is not wrinkled but it's imperfect due to what's underneath. I put it on solid ground, no sand.

The safe MA I refer to is what they call SAFE muriatic acid. It's supposedly more safe than regular MA and does not smoke when poured into the pool. Does that help? Ace Hardware sells it.

When I brush I see small clouds of green, and again I say we are not talking a lot of algae. I am certain it's algae and not sediment as I am really good about vacuuming. I usually get in and create a whirlpool and suck up all the debris with the hose as it's easier.

[Waldog]

Interesting, on all sorts of levels. I hadn't heard that TFP was trying to get away from "BBB Method", though I know it irritates some of them that I originated almost all of the ideas behind "BBB". (Chem_Geek did the analysis that explained EXACTLY how those methods worked.) It's kinda funny, really.

I thought so too. They don't describe it as BBB anymore. It's TFP method and shocking is not shocking, it's SLAMMING. And believe me... they'll will tell you if you are "DOING IT WRONG". I have the de-merits to prove it. LOL

Yeah there are some differences for sure. Doesn't seem to be as important to use Borax to them which is puzzling after what I've read because it sure as heck can't hurt?

At any rate, I am about 5-8 miles as the crow flies from a river called the "St. Johns". My pool is near trees, and specifically very close to a tangerine tree which is NOT in season and is losing fruit. I did cut it back away from the pool. This is the best location I could find on my property without putting it in the front yard (we have two acres) and without putting it in the way of my garage access.

Could the phosphates come from rain water? Our water came via truck as our well is high in iron, and I did not want to deal with that situation.

I'm willing to do the borates because of the other benefits (sparklypoolitus) and it may help prevent other forms of algae as well as being cheap.

I gotta run too... be back later.

[Waldog]

Just got home and no algae on the pool floor. Tested my FC and PH with OTO test and this is the first time that it's turned ORANGE. Like NEON orange!!!

I will do the FAS-DPD test and see what results I get with that.

PH is reading 7.5 but it always has been so I don't know if that's false because chlorine is so high.

Better half is on way to Wal-Mart shortly to get bleach and borax.

I'll be back shortly with the FAS-DPD results and CC test.



Ok BACK!!! Just tested:

CYA: 40
FC: 27.5
CC: 0

Now... how in the world did the pool have some algae on the floor this morning?

I dumped a 64OZ bleach in this AM before I left for work because I was afraid I would come home to algae again... there's no way that one bottle put me up that high unless my FC was already pretty good. Yeah, I didn't test, was in a hurry so I winged it.

I guess I should do an OCLT tonight/tomorrow.

Going to vacuum up the pool now and possible swim. The h-e-double-hockey-sticks with it. LOL

Side note: I am seriously thinking my Aldi bleach was weak and quite possible that last bottle was not... although it was in a case I've been using... I dunno I have never seen my OTO turn orange so that's why I say that.

[Watermom]

I would go ahead and brush the pool while the chlorine is high even though you see no algae.

And, you'll probably want to wear old swimsuits if you swim with the chlorine that high. It won't hurt you but will likely fade swimsuits.

.

[JimK]

If I understand correctly, the "safe" MA at Ace is a diluted version of regular MA. If so, your dosing will be different. Personally, not knowing if there is anything else in the "safe" MA that you might not want in your pool, I wouldn't use it.