Cloudy water is it my filter?

[PoolDoc]

Argh. I really, really *wish* we had a simple way to remove stains and metals.

But you've got a sand filter; that will help. Let me explain the concept, and then get to the details.

1. You need to find out out the metals are getting into your water -- and stop it, if possible.
2. You need to make sure that standard chemicals will remove the stains -- test with Vitamin C (ascorbic acid) and Iron Out (sodium hydrosulfite)
3. You need to prepare to re-dissolve the stains into the pool water (Vit. C or Iron Out) -- using non-chlorine compatible chemicals.
4. You need to re-chlorinate BUT keep the metals dissolved.
5. You need to gradually remove the dissolved metals from solution, without returning them to the stains
6. You need to act to prevent metals from entering your pool (preferable) or else manage their entry, if you can't prevent it.
7. Because the process often isn't perfect, you may have to repeat the stain removal 1 or 2x, before you can permanently eliminate them.

Whew!

As you can see, this is a complex process. As far as I know, there is no simple one-step fix. The various products on the market for metal control or management are over-hyped and under-described, presumably because explaining to pool owners how complex this process is, hurts sales.

Keep in mind, that doing nothing is an option.

Stains don't hurt anyone, and if no one in your family is getting green hair, deciding you can live with them is a perfectly good option. You *should* figure out (a) if that 0.5 ppm Cu result is real or bogus, and (b) if it's not bogus, how copper is entering your pool. Once you do, you probably want to stop it.

If you decide you DO want to deal with the stains and metal, you need to do all of the following:

1. Enter your pool data in the pool chart:

http://pool9.net/pf-pool-form/

2. Enter test results from your pool into the pool history spread sheet:

http://pool9.net/pf-hist-form/

You can see results here:

http://pool9.net/pf-hist-chart/

3. Enter test results from your pool FILL water into the pool history spread sheet as well.

4. Try to identify HOW metals are entering your pool. (Algaecides, ionizers, fill water)

5. Test your stains with Vit. C and Iron Out to see if applying a few tabs or 1/4 cup granules will lift the stains.



Lemme know what you plan do to!

[PoolDoc]

Just thought of 2 other things:

1. With borates = 30 ppm, you might want to go ahead and add the additional borax and acid to reach the 60 ppm level that is helpful in preventing algae. This is especially worthwhile if you're planning to go on vacation and leave the pool untended. On your pool, 12 boxes of borax (72 oz) and 4 gallons of 21 degree 31% muriatic acid should do it. If you do this, read the muriatic acid page, http://pool9.net/ma/ and add the 4th gallon slowly, testing in between additions. Given your stains, you probably want to add acid first -- directly to the pool -- followed immediately by borax added directly to the skimmers. (Do NOT choke the skimmer pipe -- borax can 'freeze' into a solid lump that will take forever to dissolve!) High pH can drop metals out, as stains.

2. If you want to just remove the stains and see if they stay gone, you can try that. Do the Vitamin C test. If that removes the stain, do all the following:

1. add polyquat algaecide http://pool9.net/polyquat/
2. let your chlorine level drop below 1 ppm
3. dump ascorbic acid on the stains (http://pool9.net/ascorbic/)
4. add HEDP (to keep the metal in the water)* [/B]
5. do your borax treatment at this time (optional)
6. re-chlorinate

The polyquat keeps your pool from turning green as the chlorine drops. The HEDP keeps the metal in the water (temporarily -- it gradually breaks down!) once you re-chlorinate. Doing it in this order will prevent new staining from the pH spike if you add borax.

If you'd like a relatively trouble-free, but not completely effective way to actually remove the metals from your water, you can use the CuLator packs. Contrary to the maker's literature, these are NOT 'worn out' after a month. The remain good until they are all gummed up from pool goo OR heavily colored from absorbing metals. You can put one in each skimmer, and hang them in front of the returns. If you put them in the skimmer, use a skimmer sock to prevent 'pool goo' from ruining them. -- They work but VERY slowly -- Using 6 at once, for 6 months, is better than using 1 at at a time, replacing them every month for 6 months.
http://pool9.net/culator/
http://pool9.net/skim-sock/


* HEDP is not sold directly under that name. "Jacks Magic Pink Stuff" is the highest concentration HEDP we've able to find, that is usually available. Amazon doesn't sell it directly, but usually there are 1 or 2 3rd party sellers on Amazon who do sell it.

[Skymarc]

The stains are only dirt stain from last year as I lost the pool at the end of the season.
Im rubbing a chloring puck on it and brush and it helps to remove it.

As for the copper level, its my fault as I use some copper sulphate earlier this season. I always used some the last 3-4 years to control algua before I read on it that its not very good to use. I have plenty here at the feedmill and its cheap. I have stop using it and the copper level will go down in time when I remove some water this fall to close the pool.

I have zero stains from the copper or metal. No green hair neither.
Water is crystal clear and my CHL level is more like 5 ppm when I test it with my k2006 tester. I think the pool store does not test higher than 3.

Liner as a rough texture now, before it was more slippery??

[PoolDoc]

+ The most common cause I've seen for a rough liner is what I've called "sand algae". Under certain conditions, some forms of algae and slime will either secrete tiny calcium domes that adhere to the pool surfaces. You can see some extreme examples here: http://pool9.net/algae-sand/

+ Do NOT rub a trichlor puck on your liner; they are VERY acidic, and low pH will do serious damage to a liner. If you have stains that respond to high chlorine, dose your pool with bleach at night, and let the stains gradually disappear.

[Skymarc]

No slime but just a rough texture.

[PoolDoc]

Look at the pictures of the white or sand colored bumps -- those are the end point residue left after the algae is gone.

[Skymarc]

My k2006 test this am,
FC 2.5
CC 0
PH 7.2
TA 90
CH 90

I added more chlorine and 1 box of borax.
Water is crystal clear.

[PoolDoc]

Looking good.

But if the roughness on your liner is calcium scale it would be better to keep your pH near 7.0, till the roughness is gone.

[Skymarc]

my latest test last night,

FC 4.5
CC 0.5
PH 7.2-7.3
TA 90
CA 90
CYA 45

the box of Borax didn't do very much as I added water and my fill water PH is 6.8 and FC of 2-3 ppm.
did a chock last night and its looking good this am. Very clear.
On the CYA its hard to not see that dot, how far should I be when looking down at it?

[Watermom]

When testing CYA, hold the vial at waist level and have the sun at your back.