My 6-year old is dying to swim and I've got green water even with high FC levels

[rox29160]

OK, I've got several stupid questions....Please excuse my ignorance. I plan to try and find some dichlor locally tonight or tomorrow morning.

1. Pooldoc stated not to use Trichlo. I know it is not the same as dichlor, hence the name, but I thought both were acceptable means to add FC and CYA, as long as you need CYA. I actually bought a floater and some tabs with 99.0%-Trichloro-s-triazinetrione & 1%other ingredients with 90% available chlorine last weekend. I have not used any of it yet thank goodness and can hopefully return it. I was planning to use it to boost my CYA after getting the green knocked out of my water. My question is...What is the difference in dichlor and trichlor?

2. If it is copper, is there something that will make it drop out so I can vacuum it or dissolve back into the water so it is not visible?

3. Why would copper just show up this year since it is the original pool water from 3 years ago? I have never drained the pool. I have added water over time though. Would algae make it all of a sudden appear? Or the SWCG? I have used the SWCG in all of the 3 previous seasons and had clear water last fall when closing the pool.

4. I have powdered cyanuric acid stabilizer on hand too. Can I use it to raise the CYA until I get the dichlor or will it just get filtered out?

[BigDave]

A) The only stupid question is the one that isn't asked.

1) I think PoolDoc's reason is that dichlor dissolves quickly and is the quickest way to get CYA in the water, Trichlor will also add CYA but at a slower rate.
2) I'm hopeful that a lot of it has stuck to the cloud in your water and the new cartridges may help remove it. There are other methods to remove metals, none of them are fast. Refill is quickest - are you sure you can't?
3) It didn't just show up this year. Your ladder was coated in it from last year. The copper dookickey in the Krystal Clear was actively adding it to your pool.
4) You can put it in a sock and hang the sock in the pool, prefereably in from of a return, Squeeze the sock every now and again to help it dissolve.

-5- If anything I've written conflicts with or is contradicted by PoolDoc, - What he says goes.

[rox29160]

30 May 2014

Again, I appreciate all of the help I am receiving.

1. I guess I need to wait on input from Pool Doc on whether to use or not use the Trichlor that I already have since he said specifically not to use it. I have never seen anything related to pools in any lowes or home depot around here, but I am going to check tomorrow. Pooldoc didn't mention buying it at a poolstore so I am assuming they don't usually carry it. I have 2 that are within about 30 minutes that I may call. I just hate to wait for shipping from Amazon if the stabilizer will help. It sounds as if I can add the cyanuric acid and at least be trying to raise it some while waiting.

2. The cartridge caught a good bit last night, but next to nothing during the day today. I may have mentioned we had a pretty bad storm last night so it could have been partly from stuff being clown into the pool. Fingers are still crossed though. I don't guess a refill is totally out, but my well is not a really high yielding well so I would rather not. I was scared I was going to run it dry last time I filled it.

3. I understand that it has always been in there. I meant more along the lines of why did it just all of a sudden turn my water green.

4. I will get this process started tonight. The sock method is how I have always tried raising the CYA in previous years.

5. Understood! I know he definitely knows his stuff.

[BigDave]

Trichlor will work to raise CYA and chlorine. It will also lower pH.

Like PoolDoc said, do be careful buying dichlor at Lowes or Home Depot. Many(most) retailers are selling adulterated dichlor many formulations containing copper. Sam's Club Pool Brand dichlor is OK (last checked). PoolDoc's Amazon links are also the good stuff. For about twice the price per pound, the Leslie's near me sells 99% dichlor (good stuff). I can't say if it's the same near you. Many pool stores sell the diluted / corrupted material.

If you do venture into a pool store, do not let them sell you anything other than 99% dichlor (56% available chlorine or better). They will try.

How much trichlor do you have on hand? How much stabilizer?

[rox29160]

31 May 2014

I have 6 1/2 pounds of stabilizer, powdered or granular. I have 4 pounds of 1" tabs of the trichlor. I added about 1/2 pound of stabilizer using the sock method last night and put 8 tabs in to float around. This morning the tabs are still in there and don't appear to have dissolved at all. The stabilizer is pretty well dissolved. FC using the OTO test is high (dark red).

On another note, I started the bucket test for metals last night. 15 hours into it and no change of color of either the fill water or the pool water and nothing in the bottom of either bucket. The fill water is clear. The pool water never appeared as green in the white bucket, but definitely has a light brownish green tint that is still visible.

The Unicel filter did not pick up any thing to speak of again overnight. (only a few bugs and very little brown stuff at all)

[BigDave]

Is the water cloudy and green or clear and green? What color green is the water?

You have plenty of CYA on hand (in stabilizer and trichlor) to reach any reasonable goal. Leave the tabs in the floater, make sure it doesn't park itself in one place against the wall - tie it out if you must. Add another pound and a half of stabilizer via the sock method. Wait a couple days after the sock is empty to test. At that point, CYA should be somewhere around 50.

By now you have killed everything chlorine is going to kill. I think it's time to let it come down. Wait for the FC to get to 5 before adding more bleach. Does your OTO comparator read to 5? Keep an eye on pH, add a little Borax if it gets below 7.0. With the chlorine below 10, perform another overnight chlorine demand test: use FAS-DPD to test FC and CC in the evening near sundown and again the next morning near sunup. Test for CH when the chlorine is below 10 as well.

Keep the filter running and brush daily.

[rox29160]

31 May 2014

The pool is clear but light green. It is almost the color of bleach, but less yellowish and more green. I don't know of anything close to this color. It is like the shade of statue of liberty but not chaulky looking like that. It is a little brighter green than that.

The bucket test pool water looked a little less green ( maybe a little more brown) and a little more hazy or cloudy, both initially and after adding the bleach and borax. I am assuming if I can't clear it up in the bucket then draining and a refill is the only option.

That bothers me more than anything b/c we are thinking of installing an IG and I won't be able to drain an IG if it were to happen then. This will be a huge confidence reducer if I have to drain.

I never knew how hard it is to describe shades of green.

[BigDave]

Clear green, I didn't understand that, I thought it was cloudy and green - sorry. I'd bet it's copper and that the copper is from the Krystal Clear. Most Intex type pools get drained at least annually, your pool has had the opportunity to accumulate copper. I'd also guess that with a CYA of less than 30, the SWCG (and copper ionizer) was working double shifts to keep the pool clear.

Refill is not the only option, I'd defer regarding metals removal but there are ways to manage metal in the water. CuLater packets also seem to help actually remove the metal from the water, you don't have a skimmer that would work but you can hang 'em in the pool like your CYA sock. Please read the stickies in the metals forum to get familiar with the process.

If you have no blonde (or color treated) haired swimmers and you can live with the risk of greenish fingernails (or green hair for that matter) you can swim - as long as there's adequate chlorine and the water's clear.

This shouldn't change your plans regarding a big pool. You won't be able to fill it from your well - you'll need water trucked in. I'm pretty sure that at this point no one will be able to sell you an ionizer or mineral system of any kind and that you'll never ever ever use a copper based algaecide.

I never knew how hard it is to describe shades of green. I felt pretty clever with "Statue of Liberty green"

[PoolDoc]

OK, I think I have an idea what's going on. I deleted a bunch of our chit-chat posts, and reformatted most of yours for readability. What I think is happen is that you've got a combination of problems, some of which are -- as you wondered earlier -- "just now catching up with you".

But I'm not sure! What's very clear is that you have a very confusing situation. Some of our posts have been less then helpful, because none of us were 'twigging' to all the facts you'd provided. I don't feel as bad as I might have, because some of those facts dribbled out over 3 or 4 posts and several days. Again, that's not your fault, but it has made it hard for us to see what's going on. Let me give you a list -- a LONG list -- of things to do:

1. Please verify that I have (finally) got the facts right about your pool:

+ You have a 4 year old Intex 16' round pool that you've used successfully for the previous 3 years.
+ You have used an Intex SWCG that has visible copper bars.
+ You have the Taylor K2006 kit, and have tried the calcium test, but have always gotten strange results.
+ Your pool was green and slimy on opening, but is now greenish (greenish-blue?) and somewhat clear.
+ Your pool's surfaces are not now slimy or slippery, and have not been for several days (a week?)

2. Please collect some of your green goo / powder, and put a visible amount in 4 clear glass containers. (Wine glasses would be great, and this shouldn't hurt them.) Place the glasses on a clear background outdoors, like a plastic picnic table or light picnic cloth. Wear plastic gloves and glasses. Then:

+ Add 2 tablespoons of distilled water from Walmart to each glass.
+ Add a teaspoon of bleach to one, a teaspoon of acid to another, and 2 - 3 Vitamin C tabs to a third glass. Leave the fourth with goo + distilled only. Stir them up using a plastic spoon. Mark or label the glasses so you know -- for a certainty -- which is which. (You can use magic marker, and then remove it with rubbing alcohol)
+ Wait 1 hour, then observe each glass, and note the conditions of each.
+ Take high res photographs of the glasses, just after adding and stirring, and an hour later. Send the photos to poolforum@gmail.com, and include your user ID "rox29160" and the thread # "23663"

3. Watch the Taylor videos:

http://pool9.net/tk-guide/
http://pool9.net/tk-interfere/

. Pay especial attention to the calcium hardness test INTERFERENCES video.

4. DO a complete set of test on your pool water AND the water you fill the pool with. DO the calcium test with, and without, the modification. Report the results here.

5. Take pictures of the pool, the pipes, and the SWCG. Send the photos to poolforum@gmail.com, and include your user ID "rox29160" and the thread # "23663" . Don't worry about taking too many pictures -- I can discard the ones that don't help, but I can't look at the ones you don't send.

6. Let your chlorine drop to normal (5 ppm or so) levels.


Thanks!

[rox29160]

#1 All items in #1 are correct with the possible exception of slimy upon opening, but that is probably correct also. I don't remember checking at this point. It was a dark green which most likely means algae was present so that statement is probably true as well. Just trying to make sure you know I did not check for slimyness at this point.

#2 The green stuff may be hard to get since I have tried to clean everything off already. I will try to get a sample from somewhere though. I am sure I can find some somewhere since it was on everything. The hoses would have been perfect to collect these samples before they were wet. How much green stuff do I need in each glass? What kind of acid, cyanuric? What kind of vitamin C tabs, like vitamin c supplements that humans take?

#3 done! I will try the revised CH test tomorrow. I wish I had known these were around when I first started using the k2006.

#4 I will try both the revised and normal CH tests tomorrow.

#5 Tomorrow

#6 No more bleach until it is down!

Bucket test for metals after 30 hours showed no change in pool water or fill water. Nothing has settled to the bottom either.

Thank you all for your help. This will be a huge confidence booster if I can finally get this fixed, although I think my daughter gave up a long time ago.

I will try to get to Wal-mart tomorrow after church to pick up distilled water and vitamin c.