Pool Equipment Revamp: In over my head

[jtsarnak]

I makes sense, but its also a bit disappointing.

I basically expect the heater to work this season if it is installed this season. My concern is whether it works during next season (after a season of use and then a half year of sitting around doing nothing). If I'm not wrong, it sounds like I'd be in the same boat next season whether I buy the unit myself or he supplies it. So the $500 difference is me paying up front for a problem occurring this season which I feel has a slim chance of happening.

[PoolDoc]

Actually, with manufactured equipment generally (this is not specific to pools) the highest rate of failure is when the equipment is new; then the failure rate drops off to follow what's sometimes called a "bathtub curve", and gradually increases until the equipment approaches it's life expectancy.

If

(a) your heater works well this year, (spring and fall) AND
(b) you protect it from the weather over winter, THEN

it will probably be OK next year.

Moisture and bugs kill unused heaters. So does poor water chemistry.

[jtsarnak]

Thanks for the info!

I guess I am just scared by the reviews of the H-series on Amazon. It seems either people love it or the panels or something fails when they try to fire them up the next year. But thanks again for your wisdom, it seems as though everything is a fair price, it's just a matter of what do I want to pull the trigger on.

[PoolDoc]

When I read through those, I was left with the impression that there 3 issues:

1. The possible real problem with the electronics -- probably from getting damp.

2. People buying the heaters without paying attention to what the requirements were.

3. People making incorrect assumptions about how the heaters would work.

Only the first is really Hayward's problem. The others are a result of less than full informed consumers purchasing complex equipment without taking the time to understand it. Those problems would have existed, no matter which heater they purchased.

I probably should add: gas or propane pool heaters are, in my own local experience, the single piece of pool equipment most likely to go unused after the first season. Often they are turned off after the first large gas bill. Due to fracking, natural gas prices are down, relatively speaking, from what they have been historically. Because fracking is still growing, prices are likely to remain down. Heat pumps -- when applied correctly (= only in cool, not cold, climates!) -- offer a potentially more economical solution.

But, heating outdoor pools is EXPENSIVE. The ONLY method of heating that is not, is solar heating, and in the East, it's a very hit or miss method.

[PoolDoc]

Followup: I spent a bit of time looking for reviews of OTHER gas pool heaters on Amazon:

StaRite Max-E-Therm 400
Sta-Rite Max-E-Therm Black 400
Pentair Minimax 100
Pentair Minimax 100 Millivolt
Pentair MasterTemp 250
Zodiac Legacy 399

Most others hadn't been reviewed. I didn't read most of these reviews, but I still saw several where it was obvious to me that the purchaser made the error.

[jtsarnak]

I probably should add: gas or propane pool heaters are, in my own local experience, the single piece of pool equipment most likely to go unused after the first season. Often they are turned off after the first large gas bill. Due to fracking, natural gas prices are down, relatively speaking, from what they have been historically. Because fracking is still growing, prices are likely to remain down. Heat pumps -- when applied correctly (= only in cool, not cold, climates!) -- offer a potentially more economical solution.

But, heating outdoor pools is EXPENSIVE. The ONLY method of heating that is not, is solar heating, and in the East, it's a very hit or miss method.

The plan is really to only use it for the purpose of heating the attached spa that spills over when we have guests come by and people want to relax in the bubbly. We do not plan to use the heater to ever heat the pool itself so I think it will be fairly inexpensive to run for that purpose. We would be using the gas model as well, so that will help some over propane.

What is a heat pump and how does it differ?

[PoolDoc]

A pool heat pump works just like a house heat pump, except it heats water instead of air.

It would not be a good choice for a spa, since even heat pumps have a fraction of the heat output of a gas heater, and don't work well once temperatures go below 45 degrees.

As you say, heating a spa occasionally will be not nearly as expensive as keeping a pool warm.

[CarlD]

From what we've seen here, heat pumps are GREAT for heating pools in the spring and summer, being very efficient when the air temp is in the 50's or higher, especially in the 70's and up. But for spas in colder weather? Ben's certainly right. My neighbors with Natural Gas heaters don't use them much unless they are having a pool party because their gas bill goes through the roof!

Solar works well here in the NE, but is inconsistent. 4 or 5 rainy days and your pool temp will drop back into the 70's. A solar cover will help slow that down and hold the heat in at night. But it's a trade-off. I've been running solar panel heating in NJ for 13 seasons now, first with my little 15' Intex donut and now with my FantaSea. Personally, I've been very happy with it. We find we don't use the pool that much in May or September except on hot days.