Asthma-cant use chlorine. Need info on potassium shock

[Caffysue]

Hello. We switched our pool to a Nature Two cartridge system and potassium shock due to chlorine triggering asthma attacks in a family member. The pool water looked good for about the first month. Now it is starting to be slightly cloudy-as in not "crystal clear and sparkling". I've been reading some posts on potassium shock but some of the abbreviations are above my head. The pH is ok, but alkaline is a little high. I used a 3 month algicide. Would someone please give suggestions on pool maintenece with the Nature Two and use of potassium shock? I'm also not sure how to reduce the alkaline without lowering the pH too much. Help??

[PoolDoc]

OK.

I'm familiar with asthma and pools -- VERY familiar. My oldest son, now 26, was born a year after I entered the pool business. When he was 3, he nearly died from his first asthma attack. We've used theophylline, albuterol, predisone, dexamethasone, various inhaled corticosteroids, cromolyn sodium, salmeterol, peak flow meters, nebulizers, allergy shots and lung flutes. I personally gave him his allergy shots for 4 years. He swam competitively for 21 of those 26 years -- indoors, outdoors, and in the Tennessee River. When he was 12, he was the city-wide champion, in his age bracket. When he was 16, he was the best distance swimmer in the city. When he was 19, he won the 5 mile open water swim in the Tennessee River.

I *studied* asthma; I still study pools.

And . . . I have *never* seen ANY evidence that chlorine use in PROPERLY run outdoor pools contribute in ANY way to either acute outbreaks of asthma, or the chronic condition.

I have seen deal of evidence that the *by-products*, which result from IMPROPER chlorination of outdoor pools, and which *MAY* result from the proper chlorination of INDOOR pools can trigger asthma, both acutely and chronically, especially when there is poor ventilation of the indoor pools.

My son's best distance times came at the UTK 'old' pool, which had an old, 100% outside air ventilation system. By contrast, he could never swim the full 4 day championship meets held at the Tracey Caulkins pool in Nashville, because of their poor ventilation. By the 3rd day, his times would start to deteriorate, even when we kept his time inside to the minimum possible.

Changing subjects:

* We have seen NO evidence that the Nature2 contributes to any positive outcome, EXCEPT greater profits for the pool dealer.
* We have seen considerable evidence that potassium monopersulfate is useless as a sanitizer and not very good as an oxidizer ('shock').
* With the possible exception of removing the remnants of Baquacil from pool water, we have not seen ANY pool care function, where potassium monopersulfate would be the preferred treatment.
* All of the "3 month algaecides" I know of, I would not put into any pool under my care.
* We do not attempt to support pool operations with 2nd rate (or worse) products, including ozone, Oxone (potassium monopersulfate), 'foamy' algaecides, copper algaecides or products (including Nature2), or PHMB (Baquacil, etc.)
* This page explains how to lower alkalinity (though I have my doubts about whether doing so will have any value to you)
http://www.poolsolutions.com/gd/lowe...p-by-step.html


Finally:

If you are interested in learning how to operate a chlorinated outdoor pool *properly* so that it has zero effect on asthmatic swimmers, we can help. If you want to continue to use Nature2 and Oxone, we would suggest that you call Jandy and DuPont, respectively -- since we don't think those products *can* work well for you.

Best wishes,

[chem geek]

Nature2 with MPS is an EPA-approved disinfectant ONLY in hot spas because the reaction of the silver ions with MPS and the activity of MPS in hot water are sufficient to kill pathogens quickly. However, in the cooler water of pools, such rates are much, much slower so the combination is not a disinfectant in pools. This is described below:

At 77ºF Potassium Monopersulfate provided only 16.8% inactivation of E.coli bacteria in 2 minutes, but at 104ºF it provided >99.9999% inactivation.

SOURCE: Gerba, Charles P. and Jaime N. Naranjo. “Comparison of the Anti-bacterial Properties of Hot Tub Additives and Disinfectants.” Seminar at NSPI Meeting in Las Vegas, November 1999. (I got this from a book of articles by John Wojtowicz in The Journal of the Swimming Pool and Spa Industry (JSPSI) called "The Chemistry and Treatment of Swimming Pool and Spa Water". The specific article is "Survey of Swimming Pool/Spa Sanitizers and Sanitation Systems" by John A. Wojtowicz and appeared in Volume 4, Number 1 of the JSPSI.)

[Caffysue]

Thanks for your feedback.I've found your link regarding pool care very educational. At this point, I am still wanting to make a go of the Nature 2 and Potassium shock if I can. It's taken us 5 years to find out why my fiancee always got sick every summer. We finally KNOW he is reacting to chlorine. Even with a perfectly balanced chlorine pool, he cannot tolerate the exposure. It is not worth it to us to risk it again. That said, if there are some helpful suggestions regarding non-chlorine pool maintenence, please post. Thanks again.

[PoolDoc]

It doesn't sound like you need any support from us:

1. You are already doing what Nature2 says to do.
2. It's failing to work (Surprise, surprise! . . . Not!)
3. You've demonstrated (again) that this process doesn't work.
4. Even so, you want us to help you make it work.

The only helpful suggestions we can make about "non-chlorine pool maintenance" is that they don't work, with one exception. You've simply given us more evidence for this conclusion.

Baquacil / Softswim / Revacil 'works'. It works fairly well the first year, and then deteriorates after.

It will *continue* to work, IF:
1. You replace your filter media (sand, cartridge) annually.
2. You replace (in one single event) 1/2 of your water annually.

PS. If it were *really* chlorine that is triggering your fiancee's asthma . . . he couldn't take a shower in most parts of the US, since THAT water is chlorinated, as well!

[Caffysue]

You are right, Pool Doc....even showers are problematic when the asthma is flaring. We are looking for solutions to avoid triggers, hospitalizations and so on. While the pool isn't perfect this year, its the first summer in 5 years without a trip to the ER. I'm not on this site looking for medical advise. I appreciate the input from the person who quoted the study on Nature 2 sanitation since we need a pool that is safe for everyone to use. I appreciate the information on Baquacil and Softswim. One thing I've learned since owning a pool is that everyone is very opinionated about how to properly maintain a pool, but no body agrees on the process.

[PoolDoc]

You are right, Pool Doc....even showers are problematic when the asthma is flaring.

Call your water company. Find out if they use chlorine for final sanitation . . . or monochloramine. Monochloramine (and dichloramine and nitrogen trichloride) are definitely triggers. This page explains somewhat more:
http://www.lenntech.com/processes/di...hloramines.htm Keep in mind that, just because the water company does not deliberately add monochloramine to their water, that does not guarantee that there will be no chloramines present when the water reaches you. Particularly noxious chloramines form when chlorine reacts with organic goo, like iron bacteria bio-films that are present in many old water pipes.

A active carbon filter will remove chlorine, and reduce chloramines present. An FAS-DPD test kit will allow you to measure exactly how much chlorine is in your tap water, and determine whether it's free or combined (chloramine) chlorine. If you elect to use a carbon filter to remove chlorine on the shower water, the kit will allow you to verify whether it's working . . . and when the carbon filter is 'exhausted' or used up.

You can get ONLY the K-1515, if you just want it for your tap water. Or you can get the K-2006 if you want to be able to accurately test your pool water.

Taylor K-1515 FAS-DPD
Taylor K-2006 FAS-DPD complete

Good luck.