Bromine Chemistry Question

[PoolDoc]

What I meant, by "keep it in your head", is that if you add doses, and then test, you'll get to the point where you know what a reasonable dose of chlorine, acid, or alkalinity is for YOUR pool. That way, if your chlorine is low or your pH high, you can simply add the right dose -- learned by experience -- rather than running into the house (or for your smart phone -- and handling phones while you're handling chlorine tabs is NOT a good idea!!) and checking the calculator.

New forum members sometimes get fixated on various calculators, and become dependent on them, which prevents them from reaching that plateau where, 90% of the time, you know the right dose as soon as you see the test results.

[FormerBromineUser]

While we're waiting for TA to adjust, I have a few questions for Ben. You had me purchase 4 qts. polyquat and 12# of calcium hypochlorite. I am not sure when I am supposed to use them. In years past, the "pool store" had me do a weekly maintenance of 3 lbs "shock", 6 oz polyquat eq., 6 oz clarifier, and 6 oz HEDP eq. I know the clarifier is out with BBB method, but what about the polyquat, the HEDP, and the calcium hypochorite? Do I do any of these on a maintenance/regular level? If not, I am sure you asked me to purchase them with good reason and I need to know when you intend for me to use them.

[CarlD]

I know nothing about bromine pools but usually you can use Polyquat weekly adding a couple of ounces, or more. Polyquat's one drawback is it can drive chlorine levels down, so you have to compensate for that. I believe it also doubles as a clarifier.

[PoolDoc]

Let me clarify some things.

1. Hardly anything is "out" with the BBB method. Carl's due credit for coming up with a convenient and easy-to-remember name for the approach to pool chemistry I've taught, but there are times I wish he'd thought of a different name. The problem is, it tends to fix people's minds too tightly on a limited set of chemicals. The fact is, I'm not against ANY chemical . . . used with a good reason.

2. Polyquat allows you to keep your pool from going green, while the chlorine is low.

3. When you've got metals in the water, you need to keep the chlorine low, to avoid 'dropping them out' and causing stains.

4. But, EVENTUALLY, you have to do just that: the cal hypo is for the purpose of helping you 'drop them out' on the filter (and on the calcium particles on the filter, from the cal hypo.)

Basically, what you're trying to do, is get your pool up and running smoothly via HEDP, polyquat, low-ish pH, and low-ish chlorine. Once you've done so, THEN you can switch to removing metals without staining things much, using gradually rising pH, gradually rising chlorine . . . and precipitation ONTO the filter, via cal hypo.

Unfortunately, managing metals remains complicated. I haven't come up with, or seen, a simple method for doing so. We'd hoped this product would do so:

1.5 ppm CuLator pack
Poolmaster 16242 Poolmaster Skimmer Basket Liner

We've been disappointed, because though it works, it works too slowly to be a one-step solution. It *is* useful as an ongoing preventative. If you get one, get the skimmer socks, too. These keep it from being quickly contaminated with 'pool goo'. CuLator says you should change these monthly -- and you should, if your goal is to improve CuLator's quarterly statement! Otherwise, you only need to change it when it's heavily discolored (from captured metals) OR gummed up with goo.


Does this clear up any of your questions?

[Watermom]

(Carl --- this is no longer a bromine pool. Converted to chlorine.)

[CarlD]

Let me clarify some things.

1. Hardly anything is "out" with the BBB method. Carl's due credit for coming up with a convenient and easy-to-remember name for the approach to pool chemistry I've taught, but there are times I wish he'd thought of a different name. The problem is, it tends to fix people's minds too tightly on a limited set of chemicals. The fact is, I'm not against ANY chemical . . . used with a good reason.

Sorry! Too late for that, Ben! Too many years, too many people and sites have picked up on it....I wanted a catchy memory-jogger, not a rigid "This way or the highway" and didn't include acid or stabilizer in it...BBBAS (Bee-Bee-Bass) sounds weird and complicated.
I, too, use what's right at the time--and sometimes what I've got in the shed so I don't have to go running.

2. Polyquat allows you to keep your pool from going green, while the chlorine is low.

3. When you've got metals in the water, you need to keep the chlorine low, to avoid 'dropping them out' and causing stains.

4. But, EVENTUALLY, you have to do just that: the cal hypo is for the purpose of helping you 'drop them out' on the filter (and on the calcium particles on the filter, from the cal hypo.)

Basically, what you're trying to do, is get your pool up and running smoothly via HEDP, polyquat, low-ish pH, and low-ish chlorine. Once you've done so, THEN you can switch to removing metals without staining things much, using gradually rising pH, gradually rising chlorine . . . and precipitation ONTO the filter, via cal hypo.

Unfortunately, managing metals remains complicated. I haven't come up with, or seen, a simple method for doing so. We'd hoped this product would do so:

1.5 ppm CuLator pack
Poolmaster 16242 Poolmaster Skimmer Basket Liner

We've been disappointed, because though it works, it works too slowly to be a one-step solution. It *is* useful as an ongoing preventative. If you get one, get the skimmer socks, too. These keep it from being quickly contaminated with 'pool goo'. CuLator says you should change these monthly -- and you should, if your goal is to improve CuLator's quarterly statement! Otherwise, you only need to change it when it's heavily discolored (from captured metals) OR gummed up with goo.


Does this clear up any of your questions?

Metal-clearing seems to be THE most difficult aspect of pool chemistry, other than conversion from something to Chlorine.

[FormerBromineUser]

I have a bunch of questions about all that but for now I need to get back to the TA issue...
Here's what I did. I added 3/4G of MA, waited 4 hours, got a pH of 7.1ish and added 1 more quart of MA (and 3/4C of diclor). After an hour, I turned on my 2 fountains and the step swirling jets and then went to bed. In the morning my results were:
pH 7.4
FC 3.6
CC 0.6
TA 200, then 180, then 200
CH 90
I freaked out and took a sample into Leslie's.
They agreed with the pH but they said TA was 150, yesterday afternoon they had 170 so they think the acid and aeration is working. But, I returned home to retest TA and I got 200 again. I don't know who is right or wrong on these numbers. I even purchased fresh TA reagents the other day because my numbers weren't agreeing. I will continue with lowering my TA per directions but I don't know which numbers to trust here. I'm thinking Leslie's as I had TA at 200 before the gallon of acid and I still have TA of 200 and the acid MUST have done something....!

[BigDave]

When you do the TA test, are you swirling the sample after every drop? For me, when I'm getting close to the TA reading I see a red spot where a drop goes in that goes back to all green after swirl. Next couple drops the sample turns a silver / gray color after swirling. One or two more drops and the sample stays red.