Bromine Chemistry Question

[PoolDoc]

testing what?

[FormerBromineUser]

This site wouldn't let me reply but I've figured it out. Will recompose my questions.

[FormerBromineUser]

WaterMom, great suggestion!!!

Already I have a question. Arg! Thought I'd have my K2006 out already...but:

The pool guys told me that they are not installing my new pump until Thursday or Friday so my new water will sit until then. I told them that I was nervous about that because I am leaving town on Friday and won't return until Monday morning and that I didn't want to come home to a green pool! They told me not to worry because they include start-up chemicals when they do a new liner and water..... Surprise!
They use BioGuard products and my best guess as to what they will use are:
1.) Super Soluble, Burn Out 3, or Burn Out 35 for chlorine
2.) Pool Magnet for metals
3.) Algae All 60

Should I tell them no? Should I say yes to some and not to others?

[FormerBromineUser]

http://youtu.be/KT2fLvZYkcE
In a panic here....See post above for details. My new water is looking bad. It is brown-tinted from what I think is iron. The water is all well water either from my hose (with MetalTrap attached) or from municipal wells. I have researched the Metals forum and can't seem to find answers. I know the pool guys will dump a ton of Pool Magnet into it tomorrow if I don't tell them no.

[BigDave]

Don't Panic!

Do the Bucket test for metals to verify metal in the water. What does the inside of the toilet tank look like?

Bioguard's Metal Magnet Plus is (according to MSDS) 36% HEDP and 1.8% Phosphorous acid. HEDP is a recommended sequestrant and should help get metal in suspension. I'd let 'em put it, hopefully it will clear the water.

You may want to put trichlor tabs in the skimmer - couple reasons. 1) You need chlorine and CYA in the new water. 2) The tabs dissolving in the skimmer will raise chlorine and lower pH in the water before the filter encouraging the metals to drop out of suspension onto the filter. You can do this because you have a sand filter and run the pump 24/7. If you do choose this startup, don't let them put the dichlor (Super Soluble) in the pool.

It may also be a bad idea to put a lot of chlorine (Burn Outs) in the pool if there are metals in the water - it could cause metal staining on your new liner.

The Algae All 60 is Polyquat 60% (from MSDS) which is the only algaecide recommended here. It will help keep algae from getting a foothold while you're starting up. Especially a low chlorine start you'll need if you do have metals.

Please consider any warranty requirements before deviating from their plan.

Take a full set of readings (except CYA) on your new fill water and let us know.

Congrats on the new liner - Good Luck.

[PoolDoc]

@BigDave: Thanks!

@BromineUser:

1. Do not chlorinate.
2. Do use HEPD *AND* polyquat. There's nothing special about BioGuard chemicals, except the labels & pricing. Check these at Amazon if you need more.

Kem-Tek 311-6 Pool and Spa 60-Percent Concentrated Algaecide, 1 Quart
Jacks Magic The Pink Stuff 1qt (60% HEDP)

3. Keep the pH below 7.6
4. Brush daily; operate the filter 24/7.

What kind of filter do you have? If a sand filter, get a bag of DE powder, and add 2 cups of DE daily to the skimmer. Watch your pressure and backwash on a 5 psi increase. Do NOT add DE to a cartridge filter!

[FormerBromineUser]

Thanks SO much for the replies! I am much comforted knowing you are there. I updated my signature with new info, btw. Toilet tank: slimy, orange bacteria but no dark red stains.... but 24K of the new water was trucked in from water towers so my MetalTrap well-water contribution was diluted.

So.... they installed the auto-cover and pump today. No chemicals were added. They want me to bring in a sample to test after the water circulated for a bit and I will do that tomorrow. I will post results if they differ significantly from mine.

Here are my test results from tonight:

PH: (I am TERRIBLE at judging red/pink tones so I ran it twice)
PH1: 7.8-7.9 (my husband said 8 but he must be worse than me cause, NO WAY)
PH2: 7.8
Acid Demand Test: 2 drops R-0005 brought it to 7.4 (and I do have a gallon of 31.45% Muriatic Acid leftover from last season)
TA: 260-280 (26 was clearish, 27 faint pink, 28 light pink... again, not so accurate on pink tones)
CH: 130
AM: it was a neon-green chartruse, I think maybe almost a 0.5 but not really a match
FC: Obviously 0 (I checked it out of curiosity as one truckload of water came from Chicago city water which is chlorinated)

If I don't hear from you tonight, I may add a half gallon of MA in the morning. I am leaving town Friday afternoon until Monday morning so I am not going to even try to figure out how to get DE for my filter until then. It's too dangerous to leave a potential backwash problem on my dog-sitter! A bucket test for metals will have to wait too. Still gotta pack! (Headed to Virginia to watch my son compete in the ODAC tennis semi-finals. Go Bridgewater College!) ...Sorry, I am psyched and a proud Mom.

Thanks again, guys. I do use Ben's Amazon link for my purchases there but if there's any other way I can repay you for the advice and peace of mind you give me, please let me know.

[PoolDoc]

Go ahead and add the acid.

As far as the polyquat and HEDP go -- get what you need NOW, locally. Don't wait. Use Amazon for additional purchases.

I've been testing the API tests, and other aquarium tests. So far, tests from different companies don't produce the same results, so I'm going to need to buy a Taylor ammonia kit ($$) to find out if any of the aquarium tests are trustworthy.

As far as pH goes, you may need to use a meter. I don't recommend it, unless is necessary, since meters are both more expensive and more complicated. But if you can't distinguish oranges and pinks, a meter is your only option. See this thread:
Do I Need a pH Meter? (Am I Color Blind?)

[FormerBromineUser]

Okay. I added about 2/3G of MA last night. I just took my pool sample in. Their results:
pH: 7.7
TA: 232
Adj TA: 232
Total Hardness: 174

They had me put in 3 qts of Pool Magnet Plus. There are NO ingredients listed on the bottle. I hope it's the same as Dave's description of Metal Magnet Plus.
They wanted me to put in 24 oz of Smart Algacide. I said no to the Smart Algacide because it's like 60% copper or something and I read somewhere on forum NOT to use copper. I asked for the Algae All 60 but they said that they no longer carry it. Instead they gave me Inhibit Back-up which is:
30% Alkyl (C14, 95% C12 3%, C18 2%) dimethyl benzyl ammonium chloride, and
10% Alkyl (C12, 61% C14 23%, C16 11%, C8&C10 2.5%, C18 2.5%) dimethyl benzyl ammonium chloride
60% Other
There is no mention of anything sounding like "polyquat".
They also said these additions would lower my pH so not to add more MA for now.
I am off for the weekend so we will see how it is on Monday but I will check in to see if you have responded with any comments.
Thanks!

[BigDave]

I'm sorry Pool Magnet is the MSDS I looked up.