Bromine Chemistry Question

[PoolDoc]

. . . while those of us actually IN the South, suffer no such mental confusion!

And, now, back to our regularly scheduled pool discussion:

Metal stain removal has 3 parts:

1. Dissolve the metal stain.
We usually recommend ascorbic acid; Jacks Magic uses sodium bisulfite I think, and there are other reducing agents or acids that work. Most these materials are incompatible with chlorine, and cannot co-exist.

2. Keep the now dissolved metals IN the water, as you rechlorinate. THAT is what HEDP does.

3. Remove the metals from the water. CuLater is the ONLY method we know of to remove the DISSOLVED metals. The other methods require that you 'un-dissolve' them, but 'aim' for the filter OR for a floc (like aluminum sulfate)

Before you buy HEDP, get some vitamin C tabs, and drop them on your steps. If it's iron, the tabs will clear a small spot. (Or, you can put a tablespoon full of Iron Out (sodium dithionite + sodium sulfite) there).

[FormerBromineUser]

I did both the Vitamin C and Iron Out and I immediately got white spots on my steps! Now what?

Also, I did a round of borax/cal-hypo last night and at some point I would like to talk about that before I do it again.

[FormerBromineUser]

Update: I went ahead and scoured the steps with ascorbic acid and they are white again! I realize the iron is still in the water. I should receive the CuLator and skimmer basket/liners early in the week and will begin that when they arrive. I also ordered the Lamotte borate test strips; I did not order HEDP. My current numbers are:
FC 1.5
CC 0
pH 7.6

The first time I did the borax/cal-hypo, I left the pH high for a day as the instructions didn't say to lower it again. I did a second dose last night and 2 hours afterward, I added MA. I didn't want to leave my pH so high. Not sure which way I am supposed to do it.

My plan is to do the CuLator and keep the FC 2 or less. Is that right? Do I continue with the cal-hypo or go back to dichlor?

Thanks so much and Go Blackhawks!

[PoolDoc]

1. With the metal in solution, you probably want a middle pH, 7.4 - 7.6.

2. Using the cal hypo in *small* doses, via the skimmer (NO FEEDER WITH TRICHLOR!!), can help bring the metal out, on the filter.

3. Don't allow cal hypo to contact the CuLator packs. You could add cal hypo when you clean the skimmers -- but take the Culator out first.

4. I'd put ALL my Culators in the water, maybe 1 or 2 in the skimmer(s) and any others suspended in near a return, or even resting on the main drain. Don't discard them unless they are discolored or gummed up.

[FormerBromineUser]

A2. ...Use borax to gradually raise your pH to 7.8, while continuing to chlorinate. Once your pH is 7.8, begin adding 1/2 lb doses of calcium hypochlorite DIRECTLY to your skimmer, while the pump is on. This 'shocks' the water in the line upstream of the filter, and tends to drop iron out ON your filter. Continuing to use DE during this process will also help pick up remaining iron. Make sure your pump is on 24/7

Okay, just to make sure I have this correct. I am supposed to lower my pH to 7.4-7.6 with MA after I do the above.

1.) Doses above is plural and I am pretty literal... How many doses of cal-hypo in a day? I have been doing one and so far I have not yet had to backwash.

2.) How long should I wait after adding dose(s) before adding the MA?

[PoolDoc]

Conflicting ideas.

+ CuLator removes the metal while it's dissolved = lower pH + HEDP

+ Cal hypo via the skimmer removes the metal onto the filter = higher pH

You can't really do both at the same time. If you've used the cal hypo and had some orange (iron) or green/blue (copper) backwash, that's worked. BUT removing metals seems to rarely be a 1-step process. If you've gotten some metals out with cal hypo, good. If you want to continue with it, that's fine, too.

Once you start with the CuLator, a lower pH would be better.

MA dosing => http://pool9.net/ma/

[FormerBromineUser]

My bad, then. I have reread this thread over and over, and think I have just asked too many questions and things got out of sequence. If I understand you correctly, the CuLators and HEDP are what I should be doing now. I never bought HEDP because I couldn't figure out what product to buy as Kem-Tek discontinued the product you were recommending last month. Is there another option?

[PoolDoc]

The link to the Pink Stuff at Amazon still works:

Kem-Tek 311-6 Pool and Spa 60-Percent Concentrated Algaecide, 1 Quart
Jacks Magic The Pink Stuff 1qt (60% HEDP)

But lets focus on basics first. You can use the CuLator regardless: if there is free metal in the water, the bags will capture some of it; if not, they will still work later. So:

1. Send me a set of *good* pictures of your current conditions. Please go for fully focused. When focusing through water, you may need to place something on the bottom for the camera to focus on -- a stainless steel fork will probably work. If using an iPad, send the pictures *full size* by sending from "Camera Roll*, one at a time, rather than from email. On my iPad3, you can also do it by inserting the pictures, and then going back to the top, tapping the CC line, and selecting the "Actual Size" option.

2. Do a set of tests on the pool, including CYA. It may help if you'll watch the Taylor videos: http://pool9.net/tk-guide http://pool9.net/tk-interfere

3. Go ahead and get the HEDP and the Culators -- but don't use them yet.

4. If you have any sign of algae, say so.

Lets's get your pool cleaned up, clear, and swimmable, and then see about next steps.

[FormerBromineUser]

.
Thanks for responding. A comfort!

1.) I sent 13! pictures. I wasn't quite sure what a *set* of pictures was...

2.) Tests:
FC 1.5
CC 0
pH 7.6
TA 110
CH 90
CYA <30 but getting better

3.) Will order Jack's Pink Stuff today. The link I was referring to was the one for Kem-Tek HEDP that you gave to others. Thanks for the new link.

4.) I see no signs of algae and my pool sides are squeaky, not slimy.

For whatever it's worth, I also stopped by Leslie's. Don't worry, I didn't buy anything! I wanted to see if they had a sequestrant test (my BioGuard store claims to) and they said they didn't. However, they checked my iron levels which registered between 0.3-0.5ppm. I tried to leave, but they checked everything else too. I got the spiel about Natural Chemistry Metal Free and CuLators AND they said my phosphates were at least 1000 and I also needed a phosphate remover after I did the Metal Free and the CuLators... Geez. I forgot just how much I dislike pool stores! They also did a CYA test that had a sliding black dot and told me my CYA was at 20.

[PoolDoc]

Squeaky is GOOD, in vinyl sided pools. Sounds like you're on track.