choosing a heater for my above ground

[DaveC426913]

Hello. I am looking for a heating system for my above ground pool. My pool is 13 feet in diameter, approx. 4000 gallons and heavily shaded. I live in Toronto Ontario.

I've been using a solar heating system for years but it is inadequate (I do not have enough area in sunlight to make solar panels useful). With solar cover, I can keep the temp above 25C (75F) only during hot weather. Mostly, it's 21-23 (71-73F), which is just a bit too too cold for my family.

I'd like to keep it at least 25C as long as the air temp is 25 or more.

I am comparing the three other types (electric heater, propane heater and heat pump).

Propane would be great, but it sounds like I'd need to add $1000 to $1500 to run a buried gas line out to my pool (about 50 feet).

Electric sounds very convenient but very expensive in the long-run.

So now I'm looking at a heat pump. Very expensive up front, but cheapest in the long run. But apparently, they're noisy - like an air conditioner running for several hours. And they seem to be big - like for MUCH larger pools. Seems like overkill for my little tub.


I'd like to understand the costs and other factors and what options I have. Advice?

[PoolDoc]

A heat pump is only efficient when air temps are warm -- usually, 50 degrees F or higher.

If you ONLY want the heat pump to WARM the pool during the summer, it may work well for you. But, for a 4,000 gallon pool, you can probably buy quite a bit of propane, for the difference in cost between a propane installation, and a heat pump.

membership updated.

[DaveC426913]

A heat pump is only efficient when air temps are warm -- usually, 50 degrees F or higher.

Yeah no. I don't plan to use it if the temp is below 21 (72). It's just that our summer temps are mostly between 23 and 27, but the pool remains at 23-24.

If you ONLY want the heat pump to WARM the pool during the summer, it may work well for you. But, for a 4,000 gallon pool, you can probably buy quite a bit of propane, for the difference in cost between a propane installation, and a heat pump.

Hm. OK. Dos that include the install for the gas line?

[PoolDoc]

I would assume that a tank for a pool heater would be close, and the line short?

[DaveC426913]

I would assume that a tank for a pool heater would be close, and the line short?

No. Well, maybe 50 feet.

[PoolDoc]

Then, I don't know.

It's not something I have had any experience with in years. I was a licensed master plumber for over 25+ years, so when I ran into a problem like that, I just grabbed a roll of 1/2 or 3/4" Type L copper, a flaring tool, and some flare connectors and did it myself. But, that's not an option for many people.

[DaveC426913]

Then, I don't know.

It's not something I have had any experience with in years. I was a licensed master plumber for over 25+ years, so when I ran into a problem like that, I just grabbed a roll of 1/2 or 3/4" Type L copper, a flaring tool, and some flare connectors and did it myself. But, that's not an option for many people.

I don't follow. Unless you're a gas fitter, it is extremely dangerous and illegal to run your own gas line. Not to mention that you sure wouldn't use copper. Maybe I'm misunderstanding.

[PoolDoc]

1. I'm in the southern US, where codes and legal restrictions are at their minimum, not the US northeast or California, where they are at their maximum.

2. Copper is rarely used by gas fitters, but it absolutely is code allowed (or was, the last time I checked, which was probably 15 years ago.) For whatever reason, many fitters think that black iron pipe is required. I've even been told that galvanized was not allowed, when in fact it's preferable out of doors, and certainly is (or was) allowed. When I'd show them the code, they were stunned. I always chalked it up to the the triumph of tradition over knowledge.

That said, I worked with the southern Code -- I forget what it was called. I don't doubt that some codes had labor-protective restrictions which preferred high-labor-cost iron pipe over low-labor-cost copper. DWV PVC was banned in some northern codes for precisely this reason -- the trade unions wanted to outlaw anything that would reduce their rolls.

4. It is dangerous to make a mistake in method or material when fitting gas line. Fitting gas line without a license does not, itself, create any particular dangers (except legal ones). Licensed tradesmen do some extremely dangerous things on occasion, and many things done by unlicensed workers are not dangerous at all. The danger -- when it exists -- is in the quality of the work, not the presence or absence of a laminated card in the wallet.

5. "Code violations" and "extremely illegal" are distinct. It's extremely illegal to murder someone. Codes are administrative laws, not criminal ones, and are subject to non-judicial latitude and interpretation.

6. I have watched too many code enforcement officers (from both my construction background and from my history with pools) play games with the codes, to hold either codes or code officers in any very high regard. I was told by a senior North Carolina pool enforcement officer that he didn't like what I was doing (at a luxury condo pool at a NC resort location) and wasn't going to allow it, even though it was completely according to code. He then explained exactly how he'd keep the pool closed -- illegally, but within his powers --until I did it his way.

Too many experiences like these left me with a very clear distinction between "doing right" and "doing it according to code".

I should note that I have known some very honest and knowledgeable code officers, and generally had very good relationships with them.

7. In particular, I know pool codes and can give you examples of "code approved" situations that risk the health and safety of public pool users. My own pool work experience has been almost exclusively with commercial pools, not residential pools. The BBB method is 'outlawed' by most codes, even though BBB methods INCREASE swimmer safety and comfort. But, having been involved in code development in two states, I can assure you that code changes are carefully scrutinized by various and sundry interested (and lawyered up) parties to make sure that code changes don't affect their profits. Pool codes are DEEPLY influenced by pool chemical manufacturers, for less than altruistic motives.

8. I'm not sure about the current state of things, but when I got my master plumber's license, I *was* a gas fitter. Any work had to comply with the code, but I was allowed to run gas pipe and vents. To pull gas permits on major installations, I had to take another test, and pay another fee, but there was no additional apprenticeship, etc. The separation between gas fitting and plumbing, at least in this area 20+ years ago, was more a separation of business practice, than of code requirement.

[DaveC426913]

I stand very corrected! Thanks!