Can't remove Pool Light retaining screws

[AllBoys]

I am trying to replace the bulbs in the two lights in our in ground pool. The screws that hold the trim ring are rusty and one is falling apart. We can't get either out. Any help? Thanks, Barb

[Watermom]

Sorry I can't answer your question, but just wanted to pop in and say hi and welcome you to the Pool Forum! Hopefully, someone will be along soon who will be able to help you with this, though.

[Dabikeman]

If the screws are below water level you will need to use manual tools. There is a tool by name of easy out that is use to remove broken screws. If any of the screw head is above the ring, vise grip locking pliers work well. Now if they are above water the screws can be just drilled out. Use a drill bit smaller than the screw diameter. The you will possible need to retap the threads for new screws. The new screws sholud be stainless steel.

[PoolDoc]

It sounds like you are talking about the retaining screws -- 1 per light usually -- that hold the light into the pool niche?

If so, there's no magic wand, especially when the pool is filled. The screws shouldn't be rusted: the originals were SS or brass. If they ARE rusted, there have been some sub-standard repairs in the past -- and the screws are very likely to break when you apply more force. If they are NOT rusted, you might be able to grab the head of the screws with vise-grip pliers, and turn them that way.

Otherwise, you'll probably have to wait till you can safely drain the pool to that level to remove them, UNLESS you want to tackle the 'using air powered tools underwater' process. If you can't safely drain the pool to that level, this may be your only option.

I'll begin with a caution: I've used air powered tools underwater, and it's a pain.

=> Ideally, you'll need SCUBA and extra weights. It's hard enough to do this, even if you aren't trying to breathe when water splashes into your snorkle, or when you tend to float up.
=> You usually can't see what you are doing, once you turn the tool own, because of all the bubbles.
=> You need a 'tender', who can pull you up if something goes wrong. (I nearly drowned once, because I ran out of air, while working by myself at 13' feet under water . . . with 40lbs of EXTRA weight in a 2nd belt and my BC pockets. Stoopid, I know.)
=> Unless you are both careful and lucky, you'll probably lose the tools you use.
=> You'll need to rent a compressor -- few home compressors can come anywhere close to the 18 CFM requirement of the die grinder.

If you are STILL interested, assuming you have a niche somewhat like this:


the repair process involved for a typical like is this:

1. Use the die grinder and carbide burr to remove the head of the retaining screw.
2. Uncoil the light cord, and tie the light out of the way.
3. Attempt to use a vise-grip to unscrew the (headless) retaining screw from the light niche threaded tab.
4. If not possible, grind the screw off flush with the tab.
5. *Gently* center-punch the flat end of the embedded screw. Use a spring loaded center punch; hammer punching the dent can break the brass tab.
6. Use a 1/16" drill to drill out the screw. Gradually enlarge the hole with successively larger bits, till you can remove the screw. You *may* be able to remove it with a 5/64" or 3/32" bit, wedged into the hole, by turning the head of the drill. Be careful to avoid drilling out the threads. (You'll need a fairly decent dive mask to see what you are doing!)
7. Once you have the old screw removed, and have repaired the lights, re-install the lights with new SS or brass screws.
8. Clean up your tools -- if you want to save them --
=> immerse them in alcohol to remove water, then blow them off to remove water.
=> immerse them in WD-40 or kerosene to remove remaining alcohol; blow them off, and blow some air through the tool
=> lubricate them internally with air tool lube, operate, repeat, operate, repeat.

Obviously, this approach depends on your having a niche somewhat like the one show. There are also various niche repair gizzmos which may (or may not) work with your niche. And, you may be able to 'twist off' the retaining screw head, without grinding it off. You might be able to find an EZ-out to help, but I haven't seen ones small enough to work in a 5/64" hole.

Good luck!

Ingersoll Rand 1/4" Air Die Grinder 3107G (18 CFM)
Ingersoll Rand 3/8" Air Drill Keyless Chuck 7811G (4 CFM)

Astro Pneumatic 2181 Double Cut Carbide Rotary Burr Set with 1/4-Inch Shank
TEKTON 6580 Automatic Center Punch
Mibro 871570 17-Piece Titanium Extra Life Metal Master Drill Bit Set

Lucas Oil 10200 Air Tool Lubricant - 1 Quart
TCP Global® Brand 1/4" Mini Oiler / Lubricator - Automatic Mini In-line Air Tool Oiler
WD-40 10110 Heavy Duty Gallon Can (Pack of 4) (check for local availability)
Equate: First Aid Antiseptic 91% Isopropyl Alcohol, 32 Fl Oz - Walmart. Avoid the 70% Isopropyl; you want to REMOVE water, not add more.

DEWALT DXCMH1608WB 8-Gallon Honda Gas Powered Air Compressor (9 CFM)
Jenny G8HGA-8P 8-HP 8-Gallon Single Stage Portable Compressor (16 CFM)

[PoolDoc]

membership upgraded.

[Marin]

You just made a strong case against using air tools underwater!

I've never encountered this on a pool light, but I do have a fondness for old trucks. Rusty nuts, bolts & screws are common. There are a few tricks, but all mine would require working above water.

Assuming you've dropped the water level down, here's some ideas (apply at your comfort level);
Start with a break-free, I'd recommend either PB Blaster (auto store) or make a 1:1 mixture of acetone & automatic transmission fluid. Spray it around the screw as best as you can. Give it a few doses an hour or so apart. (DISCLAIMER - I have no idea what this will do to pool chemistry or your pool finish. The trim ring & glass lens should be unaffected)
Try to turn the screws now.
If they are rusted to the point of falling apart, see how far they will go. If you can find solid material, try the vise-grips. If they are completely rusted, you might luck out and be able to break it apart and get the pieces out.
If the head breaks off, you can slide the light over that and remove it. You might be able to access the screw from the back and work it out that way with vice-grips.
If you break off the screw and leave some in the fitting, my recommendations would include a propane torch or a helicoil.
Good luck!

[CarlD]

Ben, how can you use air tools underwater without ruining them? Does that mean a trip to Harbor Freight to buy the cheapest junk on the market?