First test readings of season

[michael3]

ok Ben, ph is 7.0, alka;inity test was 100, the color went from blue to yellow, the directions on my P233 said with high FC that is normal? CYA at 70-80, using the tester from my P233, ph test was from oto drop. All new reagents. Everything that has been added since the start of season: I have added over a 1 week period 12 1 lb packs of Aqua chem shock Xtra Blue, ingredients of 63% dichlor, .26% copper,36% other. thats per 1 lb pack. 2-3" pucks Aqua chem 99% trichlor 1% other. been using walmart bleach, and this stuff from home depot from sunbelt chemicals, its called Smart Liqui-Shock, ingredients 10% sodium hypochlorite, 90% other, contains 11% available chlorine. I have been using this as my main source for the past 2 weeks to keep FC up. I havent added any "shock" product or pucks in over a week, so when I tested CYA last sunday and got 55-60 maybe it all wasnt disolved? so the 70-80 I think may be closer to being right

[michael3]

I hear ya stma, we got people all around us enjoying there pools, here in georgia it's going to be in 90s next week, water is already 82. So bummed that we aren't swimming. I also just found out at Walmart I have actually only put 7 lbs of the shock xtra blue with copper in it. The other 5 lbs was didn't contain copper, and we on county water so never had a metal issue. Please let me know how the floc does, I'm ready to try that or a sequesterant lol

[Watermom]

I'm going to ask Ben to look at this thread again.

[michael3]

Thank you, watermom. This is almost comical, how seems nothing is working but I love the awesome support and advice from y'all

[PoolDoc]

We've seen repeated cases of "never ending fog" in pools with spring algae. It's not super frequent -- fortunately -- but it happens every spring.

-- Let me remove a side issue first -- @stma: if your pool turned from green to blue and than back to green, on use of "Metal Free", you have problem with metals (iron or copper) that is independent of any problem you have with cloudiness. Put another way, if your pool is cloudy, you have TWO problems: one with the metals in the water and the other with whatever is causing the cloudiness. --

@michael3: Before I start giving you guesses, let me say first that I do *not know* what the cause is . . . but

1. I can not recall a case of this happening on a pool with a DE filter;
2. It's most often AG pools;
3. Posters are typically coming to us some time AFTER the problem has become obvious;
4. Often, there has been prior use of a variety of algecides, flocculants, and clarifiers.
5. The problem gradually resolves itself, but sometimes it takes weeks.
6. Once the problem exists, slowing the flow (which creates a desirable little pump / BIG filter situation), doesn't seem to solve the problem quickly.

#1 tells me the problem is something not being filtered. Unlike cartridge and sand filters, DE filters are a positive filter -- excess pressure and flow may damage the filter, but will not usually push the dirt through the filter.

#2 suggests that the problem may result from the typical BIG pump / little filter problem that exists on AG pools, and that this problem is not so common when the filter is properly sized.

#3 - #6 suggests to me that, once the problem has existed for a week or more, there may not be any easy fix.

Here's what I think happens:

1. Pool gets algae.
2. Pool owner kills algae, but not all at once.
3. Dead algae is forced - due to BIG pump - through the filter. (<= I'm guessing, here)
4. This breaks the dead algae particles into fine dead algae fragments, so
5. Now the particles are TOO FINE to be removed, even when the flow is slowed.
6. Complicating the situation, use of flocs, clarifiers and some algaecides, actually work IN REVERSE, suspending these fine particles in the pool.

Here's the best I think you can do:

1. Add an overdose of chlorine -- with CYA=65, a 20 ppm dose would be good. (2 gallons of 6% bleach on a 6,000 gallon pool)
2. Turn the pump off and leave it off for 48 hours, and do NOT swim or disturb the water. (If you are lucky, the algae or other particles will begin settling to the bottom.)
3. Examine the pool. If the particles are settling, leave the pump off, and maintain chlorine by pouring bleach around the pool. It MAY TAKE A WEEK!
4. Once settling is complete, vacuum to waste. If necessary OVERFILL the pool. Be sure to move the vac head VERY SLOWLY to avoid stirring up the particles. If necessary, vacuum partially, refill, and vacuum so more. Be CAREFUL NOT to create water movement with the vac head, vac pool, vac hose, or water hose.
5. If you are not lucky, and nothing settles, simply resume normal operation but throttle flow through the filter to 1/2 or less of normal . . . and then be patient.
6. Alternatively, if you can drain and refill safely, do that.

There is an alternative approach: replace your sand or cartridge filter with a DE filter.

Sorry, I can't offer a better solution!

[michael3]

Were going to try the turn everything off for 48 hrs and keep chlorine over 20 and see if anything will settle approach, that Ben recommended, make sense that maybe with everything still it will settle. When we first started this season I was just dumping bleach and for a very brief period I got the start of the water from going green to a grey color. Ran short of funds and it went green again, when I started back that when I figured I was short on stabalizer and began throwing shock a it, never got that grey look back, just like green and cloudiness

[Watermom]

Good luck. Keep us posted how it is going.

[stma]

@Michael3: Any headway ?? i think i may be seeing a little bottom..although we have had torrential rains here the past 36 hours... Dont know if i need to start the "holding" process agin due to the rain...Let us know..

[michael3]

No headway at all here, tomorrow morning will be my 48 hr mark but its showing no signs of a slow settle. Tomorrow afternoon I will probably start a partial drain and refill, I am also going to install a valve between pump and filter and see if I can slow my water flow. Want to also check my sand again, I'm not convinced the sand I put in new is big enough, it seemed really fine

[PoolDoc]

@stma, I'm moving your posts back to your thread. Let's discuss Michael's pool here,
http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?20216
and your pool, there:
http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?20437

@Michael3: you may want to reconsider the partial drain -- if you drain 1/2 of your pool, and refill, your pool will be LESS cloudy, but it will still be cloudy. Unfortunately, once you get a cloud of particles that won't settle and won't filter . . . it can take a VERY long time to remove them unless you install a DE filter. Even if you drain 90%, you are likely to have a 'hazy' pool when you refill.

Of course, you do not want to drain more than you can safely do -- with an AG pool, you may be able to drain 100%, but with partially buried, or oval pools, you may only be able to drain 80% without risking pool damage.

Also, I would encourage you to make SURE you're good to go, on refill. You got where you are, thanks to algae and additives. You want to make sure you're prepared to avoid a recurrence. For example, if you are going on vacation in 2 weeks, you might want to hold off on the drain till you get back. You'd hate to drain, refill, and then re-cycle due to algae while on vacation!

At a minimum, you probably want:
+ A K2006 + any refills needed.
+ A bucket of undiluted dichlor (Sams Club or Amazon)
+ Floater and some tabs, if you have a vacation to manage in the next few weeks.
+ 2 - 4 quarts of polyquat

Everything else, you should be able to get locally.