Alum, borax, etc.

[waterbear]

As to quantity, I don't mean to disrespect our swimming pool elder, but your advice doesn't seem right. This source suggests what amounts to one 4.75 pound box per 2400 gallons. http://www.thepoolpros.com/borax.html As to calculated, I must be doing something wrong today, I keep coming up with 236 ppm at that rate. Maybe I need to align my calculator...........

The page you reference will only bring the borate to 35 ppm if you follow their directions. FWIW, I am the grandfather of using borate in the water here, at TFP and at PoolSpaForum so you might want to chill a bit. Our info is correct. Yours has not proven to be so based on the corrections that both Ben and I have made to your previous posts.

Sprinling a box or two of borax in the water and letting it sit overnight is not going to do much in the average swimming pool (of 10k to 20k gallons) except perhaps raise the pH a bit. Not quite sure you are posting that bit of info. It's really worthless. 25 ppm is the minimum active borate concentration for algaestatic effect and 30 to 50 ppm for pH buffering effect.

[Spensar]

I just don't get the love in with flocculent or clarifiers. Are there some water conditions where they are required or helpful? Maybe I'm lucky and have good water, but any time the water is cloudy it's a sign that I need to shock the water, which clears it up. If I have to clean up an algae bloom, I kill it with the usual BBB method, and when the algae nuking it done, let the dead algae settle to the bottom and vaccum to waste. It seems like 90% of the time flocculent or clarifier is mentioned is when a mess hasn't been completely cleared up, such as green algae water going to cloudy, and pool owners think flocculent or clarifier is a short cut.

Never used the stuff, and have never needed it.

[PoolDoc]

With adequate filtration and circulation, clarifiers and flocculants usually aren't a big help. But, over 2/3 of pools do NOT have adequate filtration and circulation.

Also, flocs can help speed clean up of pools with dead algae, and some (PAA) can remove phosphates and metals.

The problem is that some, like alum, are very 'twitchy'. Potable water plants run continuous 'jar testing' to allow them tailor their alum + other floc blends to the conditions of the entering water. But, pool owners can't do that.

PAA is not nearly so twitchy, but I haven't ID'd a reliable source, packaging a known concentration.

[paulvzo]

Spensar, I need alum for the reason Ben mentions: Lots of dead algae. For seven months of the year I don't use the pool and I cannot afford to keep it chlorinated on my limited income. Plus, I get LOTS of plant and even some animal biomatter in the water, just the location. There's no way to filter this mass of slime and leaves, etc. So, alum to the rescue.

I use four or five cups broadcast over the pool and in about two days it's ready to scoop out the big stuff and then vacuum to discharge for the dead algae and dirt.

[PoolDoc]

Nothing wrong with that; you're lucky it works that well for you, but many times luck is better than expertise.

What's wrong is broadcasting advice that EVERY body do likewise, unless you can also provide them with a working lucky charm that guarantees they get the results you do.

I've never personally tried to floc live goo -- it's worth an experiment. But at present I have no confidence that even 1/3 of the people who followed such advice would get similar results.

Also, less than 1/2 the people here have a working vacuum system . . .

[Spensar]

Interesting stuff, thanks.

[paulvzo]

It's like any other pool tool. It might be right, it might not be.

The last two summers I massively chlorinated, I floculated, I brush everything to the dep end to rot or whatever. This year I removed the whatevers.

Alum has its place. And its cheapest at taxidermy supply houses.

[waterbear]

Sodium percarbonate is another way to clear a badly fouled pool. It makes everything float so it is easy to scoop out and oxidized the sustpended stuff to clear the water. It does raise pH so hyou need to add acid with it to keep the pH in line.

[paulvzo]

What's wrong is broadcasting advice that EVERY body do likewise, unless you can also provide them with a working lucky charm that guarantees they get the results you do.

Never meant as advice that everyone should partake of. Maybe I just presume incorrectly that people can look at a posting and figure out if it is meant for them or not. Lesseeee......"vacuum to discharge"......oh, wait I don't have a vacuum, maybe I shouldn't do this.

I do understand, I think, that as moderator you can catch a lot of flack for someone who does stupid things based on something you said. But then, that's life, you can't fix stupid. We've already devolved into the idiocracy, in my curmudgeonly opinion.

[PoolDoc]

I do understand, I think, that as moderator you can catch a lot of flack for someone who does stupid things based on something you said. But then, that's life, you can't fix stupid. We've already devolved into the idiocracy, in my curmudgeonly opinion.

There are a number of pool forums that will accept what you said -- and much worse -- without moderator challenge. Some of those forums are actually better places for someone who wants to explore possibilities or duke it out over specific approaches.

But, when I returned to the forum in 2010, I pretty much decided that the PoolForum would focus on basic, functional and generally reliable advice for people who needed help. This inherently means excluding some tinkerers and people who have some ideas they want to try out. I allow that here, but not -- if I catch it -- out in the forum at large.

It's actually my goal to have fewer, but better posts. 90% of PoolForum's users never register, they just lurk, and it's always in MY mind, how a given thread will read to them. I think, the better I do my job, higher the 'lurker' percentage will be!