At My Wits End

[Jeannie]

The pool is GREEN. It's straight up green. It may have gotten a LITTLE lighter green.. but it's definitely still GREEN.

Last results (this evening):
Ph: 7.4
TA: 110
CYA: 50 (it went up.. but I didn't add stabilizer or anything)
FC: 20
CC: 0? I guess? the sample didn't change color.
I didn't test for CH today.. but I think last time it was around 200.


Forgot.. the sediment that we DID have was green. I don't know if there is anything now because I can't see the bottom of the pool.


(Two posts waiting in the queue were combined.)

[Jeannie]

Tested CH today.. it was 120.


I got in the pool to scrub it down.. there is NO slime or slick feeling at all. It's GREEN so it must be algae.. but not slippery. And I used my brush.. but there is nothing on the walls that is coming off. I'm so confused.


(Two posts waiting in the moderation queue were combined.)

[PoolDoc]

OK. You've got a K2006, so we can start testing.

We've got a baseline of

FC: 20
CC: 0
pH: 7.4
TA: 110
CH: 120
CYA: 50

Here's what I want you to do:

1. If your pump is not running 24/7, set it to do so.

2. This evening, add 1 full gallon of PLAIN 6% bleach to your pool. Test the FC level (10 ml sample) BEFORE, and 1 hour AFTER you add the bleach.

3. Tomorrow AM, before 8 am, test the FC level again (10 ml sample) Then, if the chlorine level is below 20 ppm, add another gallon. Post your results.

4. Make a list of EVERYTHING you've added to the pool, from the time just before it turned green, till now. Be as complete and accurate as possible. If you don't know quantities, include brands and products without quantities. Post that info. Include approximate dates.

5. Tomorrow PM, do another complete set of tests (FC, CC, pH, TA, CH, CYA) and post the results. Then add another gallon of bleach.

[Jeannie]

I just used the last of my R-0871! I ordered a new one a few days ago (expedited) but it's not showing shipped yet. I have the OTO thing but it only goes up to 6. I called all the pool stores around here and they don't sell this! How can I test for an accurate number?

[Jeannie]

Pool was crystal clear through most of July.

It rained and then it started to get cloudy/green… we added a bag of shock that night and ran the filter. The next day it didn’t look any better or worse.

+ We went to the store and they sold us Green to Clean. We used Green to Clean and Power Powder Plus. The next day it was a little lighter green.

+ We shocked again and it was a pleasant blue green in time for the party… but not crystal clear blue like we wanted. The result was also that the alkalinity and chlorine were REALLY low – my Ph was a little low too. And the pool was getting greener.

+ Soda Ash was added to increase Ph.. it brought up the TA to around 120 but the Ph stayed around 7.2.

+ We added Imperial Black Out Algaecide

+ and Green Out Shock in a moment of panic. The next day the Ph was up, the Chlorine was way up (around 15-18ppm). The pool was still green. That night the chlorine was down a bit (I don’t remember the number – but I added more shock).

+ The pool guy said it might be metal. We added Metal Free. No change.

+ The following days we would bring the chlorine up to 18 or so.. if it dropped below 10ppm. The green stayed.

+ Pool store said we didn’t need shock.. it was probably a faulty filter and gave us Blue Seal product.. a cationic polymeric coagulant? He said It would help filter out the particles that were making the pool greenish.

+ A few days later the green just got REALLY bad. That’s when we started adding bleach. I added 1 gallon the first night and it came up from 12 to around 18ppm.

+ I started testing 3 times a day, keeping the chlorine levels upwards of 15 (usually closer to 20).

+ All I’ve added since the 5th has been straight 6% plain bleach.

+ I went to the pool store today and he did a manual test on the water. He said all my numbers are pretty perfect except that my chlorine is astronomical. I have no metals in the water. He was / is stumped.

I am frustrated.. and now I don’t have a way to test my CC and FC until my new reagent comes.
ALSO.. no slime, not slick or anything. You wouldn’t even know it’s green if you just jumped in.. the water feels great.

[PoolDoc]

I just used the last of my R-0871! . . . How can I test for an accurate number?

Sorry, that's the only way. You'll have to wait.

The work-arounds aren't accurate enough to measure what you need to measure. While you're waiting for the R0871, keep your chlorine in the DARK yellow / orangish-yellow range with OTO.

Pool was crystal clear through most of July.It rained and then it started to get cloudy/green… we added a bag of shock that night and ran the filter. The next day it didn’t look any better or worse.

Cloudy-green after rain = algae. So that's our starting point.

By the way, the only reason rain 'causes' algae, is that people stop being as careful with their pool chemicals when it rains. Pool stores don't explain that, because they make MUCH more money cleaning up algae than they do preventing it.

[QUOTE]+ We went to the store and they sold us Green to Clean. We used Green to Clean and Power Powder Plus. The next day it was a little lighter green.[QUOTE]

This stuff?



It's ammonia. Usually not what you want in your pool. At high pH (>7.8) you form monochloramine which is very effective at killing algae, but also very effective at irritating people. By the way, when you use this stuff your chlorine demand will sky-rocket.

+ We shocked again and it was a pleasant blue green in time for the party… but not crystal clear blue like we wanted. The result was also that the alkalinity and chlorine were REALLY low – my Ph was a little low too. And the pool was getting greener.

Low pH with ammonia and chlorine produces dichloramine and other nasty stuff -- NOT good at killing algae; exceptionally irritating.

+ Soda Ash was added to increase Ph.. it brought up the TA to around 120 but the Ph stayed around 7.2.

OK

+ We added Imperial Black Out Algaecide

Interesting. PAN is reporting that the pesticide registration on that product was cancelled years ago:
http://www.pesticideinfo.org/Detail_...DIST_NR=043937

[QUOTE]+ and Green Out Shock in a moment of panic. The next day the Ph was up, the Chlorine was way up (around 15-18ppm). The pool was still green. That night the chlorine was down a bit (I don’t remember the number – but I added more shock).[QUOTE]

Found Green Out Shock -- what a MESS! It's a hodge podge product with some dichlor PLUS some linear quat PLUS 35% mystery goo.

Hm-mh. Just looked at your location -- you're in these guys (Island Rec) market area. Is this the product line you've been using? http://www.islandrecreational.com/Pool_Opening.pdf
and http://128.253.223.36/ppds/517234.pdf

(all archived in SPR under Blue Seal - Island Rec)

[QUOTE]+ The pool guy said it might be metal. We added Metal Free. No change.[QUOTE]
Metal Free used to be EDTA, but it's now ~2% citric acid -- and is gone as soon as your chlorine level is re-established.

+ The following days we would bring the chlorine up to 18 or so.. if it dropped below 10ppm. The green stayed.

+ Pool store said we didn’t need shock.. it was probably a faulty filter and gave us Blue Seal product.. a cationic polymeric coagulant? He said It would help filter out the particles that were making the pool greenish.

More Island Rec goo . . . but probably not a primary problem.

+ A few days later the green just got REALLY bad. That’s when we started adding bleach. I added 1 gallon the first night and it came up from 12 to around 18ppm.

Bad, how?

Bad as in clear, but REALLY green? Or bad, as in cloudy green?

+ I started testing 3 times a day, keeping the chlorine levels upwards of 15 (usually closer to 20).

Ok, this is before bleach. What were you using at this point?

+ All I’ve added since the 5th has been straight 6% plain bleach.

+ I went to the pool store today and he did a manual test on the water. He said all my numbers are pretty perfect except that my chlorine is astronomical. I have no metals in the water. He was / is stumped.

I am frustrated.. and now I don’t have a way to test my CC and FC until my new reagent comes.
ALSO.. no slime, not slick or anything. You wouldn’t even know it’s green if you just jumped in.. the water feels great.

OK. Nothing to do till the R0871 comes in, except:

1. Keep the chlorine HIGH.
2. Filter 24/7; if you need to clean pay attention to the color of the backwash.

I do not know why your pool is green. I can think of two possibilities, but I have no way right now to prove either one:

(a) you have grown some really, really chlorine resistant algae. If this is it, it will show up when the chlorine is taken to 40 ppm, and check PM to AM. Can't do that now.

(b) some of the mystery goo ("inert ingredients") in your Blue Seal products may have reacted and changed the color of your water. Thinks like magnesium carbonate and zinc in various forms are being added as mystery goo. No doubt there are other chemicals I have not been able to ID, that are part of the mystery goo various companies use.

It is possible to change the color of water, by adding various chemicals. I've seen it happen a few times, but not much because as soon as I've had contact with a pool I immediately switched to "I-know-whats-in-them" chemicals only.

I can tell you in the cases I encountered, it eventually went away. But, because it was 'mystery goo', we never found out why or what it was. And, no, the chemical companies will just tell you it's "proprietary information".

[Jeannie]

The water is VERY cloudy.. not clear at all. It's dark green and cloudy. Every morning my husband tells me the leprechauns are dancing on the pool demanding their pot of gold.

Also.. yes.. that link shows both the green out and the imperial black algae out.. although the algaecide is a different bottle than what I have. I did get those products at Island Rec (had a gift credit from when they screwed my pool up last year). I bought the Power Powder Plus and the Green to Clean at Leslie's.

I have noticed that my TA is coming down a bit.. it's at 100 now.

When you say "It will show up when the chlorine is taken to 40ppm".. what does that mean? I'll see the algae? It will get slimy?

Thank you again!

[PoolDoc]

Ok. If it's green AND cloudy, it's almost certainly algae.

Add 8 gallons of 6% bleach this evening -- about 50 ppm of chlorine -- and see what you've got in the morning. If possible, test with OTO drops in the AM, as well. Don't pour all the bleach in the same spot -- you don't want to 'hot-spot' your pool.

[Jeannie]

Ok. If it's green AND cloudy, it's almost certainly algae.

Add 8 gallons of 6% bleach this evening -- about 50 ppm of chlorine -- and see what you've got in the morning. If possible, test with OTO drops in the AM, as well. Don't pour all the bleach in the same spot -- you don't want to 'hot-spot' your pool.

EIGHT GALLONS? Wow.

[PoolDoc]

Yeah, I've occasionally seen people 'grow' nice crops of VERY chlorine resistant algae. The pool goop see-saw you've been riding is ideal for that purpose.