Hello new user here

[jhiswin]

Just an update: I think I might have figured out where all the metal came from. Last year someone used an InTheSwim winterizing kit. I looked up the active ingredient for the winter algaecide in the kit, and it uses "Copper sulfate pentahydrate".
It really is a pain how difficult it is to find active ingredients for these products.

I'm going to use the upcoming rainy days to try the stain removal. I'll post my results in a new thread.

[PoolDoc]

It really is a pain how difficult it is to find active ingredients for these products.

Yes, it is. And unfortunately, it's getting worse, not better.

That's one reason I've been so focused this season on posting the Amazon links. It allows me to give people a way to get exactly what they need, with a far smaller chance of going astray, then when we tried to help them find it (whatever *it* might be) in a pool store. Usually, the Amazon prices are pretty good.

And, getting a commission on the sale helps the forum, too. But, I'm trying hard NOT to link things unless it looks like they are a good deal for the users here.

[jhiswin]

The links actually helped a lot, thanks. I don't know if the commission went through (I hope it did), because I had to go between many tabs when I ordered.

I tried the ascorbic acid treatment, but it didn't seem to lift the stains much.

How much I used:
60% Polyquat 1qt, NOW foods Ascorbic acid 3lbs, Kem-Tek HEDP ~1.2 quarts

Used both a vitamin C tablet and a trichlor tab to test. Only the vitamin C seemed to have stain lifted formations where I dropped it.

I switched to recirculate.
After using polyquat my FC level dropped to 0.4, and right now it is at 0.0, so it's not the chlorine either (?).
Alkalinity dropped to 110 after I used HEDP.

I made a mistake of putting in the HEDP before the stains went away (maybe about 10 minutes after ascorbic acid was put in), so that may be what I did wrong? I had to leave right after doing this, and came back much later to check and found the stains were still in the original places.

I used up the 3lb of ascorbic acid I bought, so I will have to wait for a new batch of ascorbic acid before I try again.


I have a question about the CuLator. I bought 2 1ppm CuLator. I noticed that there are 3 round balls in the packet.
I'm wondering how many of these "balls" are in the other CuLators. Maybe this can be used as a metric for how much product is given?


Took a look this morning, stains actually appear to look worse and are more widespread today.
I also notice some stains on the outside of the pool. It looks like I spilled something causing a greenish yellow stain. Could it be the polyquat or the HEDP?


(Edit by moderator: three posts in the queue were merged.)

[PoolDoc]

Regarding the commission, I can see what people buy, but not who buys what (for good reasons -- it would be pretty much of a privacy violation to see WHO bought something), and people have been buying HEDP & ascorbic acid, so one of those could have been you.

Adding the HEDP before or during addition of Vitamin C would NOT hurt; nothing failed on that account.

So, I don't know why the stain removal process failed. There are several possibilities:

1. If there was still chlorine present (even combined chlorine) when you added the ascorbic acid, that would have destroyed ascorbic acid.

2. If there was metal present IN the water, you have not added enough HEDP to carry both the metal present AND the metal you re-dissolved. That, in turn, could result in the re-staining.

3. I've been going through the old Dequest literature that I have from Monsanta (HEDP was sold as Dequest 2010), and calcium can interfere. If you have high calcium in your pool, you would need a LOT more HEDP than otherwise . . . but then you risk a calcium phosphonate colloidal cloud (ie, your pool turns to milk that you can't filter out!).

Until this season, I pretty much thought that high CH / TA water was always low metals water, unless someone added a lot of copper. Apparently, that's not the case.

The balls you feel are inert; they are present to break up any lumps that may form in the granular CuLator material.

If you have any left, add another dose of HEDP; lower your pH to 7.0, run your filter 24/7, and keep the CuLator in the skimmer.

Also, can you give me a complete set of test results, and tell me how you are testing?

I think I may need to revise the process like this:

1. Submit complete K2006 readings with pH, TA, & CH.
2. If TA & CH are very high, consider doing lime softening to lower CH.
3. Otherwise, add HEDP and CuLator. Wait 2(?) weeks, to allow removal of any metals already in the water. During this time, lower TA to 100 or less.
4. After 2 weeks, add polyquat and then sodium thiosulate till an OTO 3 minute zero is achieved.
5. Adjust pH to 7.0 -- if pH needs to be raised, use only borax.
6. Add a double dose of HEDP, with adjustments for calcium.
7. Add ascorbic acid -- brush stains. Add a 2nd dose if stains are not lifted after 4 hours. (Add a 3rd dose? if stains are not lifted after 4 more hours)
8. Place 2nd CuLator in skimmer or in front of return.
9. After 24 hours, re-chlorinate slowly. During this time, add an additional dose of HEDP.
10. Continue to add polyquat every 3 days. Keep chlorine & pH low. Run filter 24/7.
11. Add additional doses of HEDP at first sign of re-appearing stains.

[jhiswin]

I still haven't gotten the K2006, and have been using strips and a simple 3-test reagent kit. I'll make sure to get the K2006 ASAP.

My pH never drops or raises much. I don't know if it's our water or what, but it's always been like this. Even after all the raining and added chemicals, my pH levels have stayed between 7.1-7.4 (it only went down to 7.1 after HEDP). I just chalked it up to good luck.

I've noticed that the stained areas appear "raised" on what looks like calcified deposits of some sort. The non-stained areas look like small gouged out rivers and lakes.

Also, for Borax I noticed you guys don't seem to have good online sources. I want to recommend a website I found if it's okay with you. I think, but am not sure, they offer commissions and new sign up bonuses ($10 off or something, I didn't get to take advantage of it) of some sort if you so desire.

[PoolDoc]

We don't recommend borax online because it's almost always available more cheaply locally. Walmart and many other stores carry it in the detergent section.

But if you know of a source that sells it DELIVERED for under $1 / lb, please post it. We have some users who live in the sticks, and it's cheaper to pay $1/lb for borax than it is to drive 60 miles 1-way to Walmart.