high pH and TA, cloudy water

[fiveUNDERfive]

HELP!!

24ft round AG pool. Primarily use chlorine bleach, but occasionally add leftover (from previous owners) tri-chlor pucks for CYA. Opened early to clear water, but very low level. Thought we had a leak in the liner, but it seems the pump has a slow leak. Haven't done anything bc we will likely be replacing pool within next summer or two.

Was doing fine until a few weeks ago, just adding about half gallon of bleach every 2-3 days (or a puck). Water was crystal clear and levels seemed appropriate.

BTW - I primarily use the walmart drop tester. However, I am out of CYA reagant (which walmart does not sell) so I bought a box of the walmart strips to suppliment until I can find more CYA drops.

While we were out of town, pH was a bit low and water had lost its "sparkle" so I asked my father to add 1/4 box of borax one time. Unfortunately, he added 1/4 box each night for 4 nights!! Ever since, the pH has been high (as in more bluish-red than the 8.2 on the kit) and the water getting increasingly cloudy. I added about 3/4 of a bottle of pH down (in two increments) leftover from prev owners, so at least 2 years old and it seemed to clear up temporarily, but clouded up again. I bought another bottle of pH down. Put in two yesterday. Two more this am. NO change in pH.

Current readings
(from kit)
Cl 3-5
pH above 8.2
TA still no pink after 25+ drops

(on strips)
pH above 8.2
TA above 240
CYA 50

What else can I do? I am a bit scared of the muriatic acid, because I am pregnant. I could TRY and get hubby to do it, but he works 80+ hours a week, so the pool maintenance generally falls to me since I am home.

Other info you need, or other suggestions?

J

[PoolDoc]

You've got two options: use more sodium bisulfate or use muriatic acid. Personally, I'd have had no hesitation asking my wife to add MA, when she was pregnant. The hazards aren't of that kind. The primary SERIOUS hazard is to your eyes (not your baby!), and that's why I say be careful, wear glasses, and plan to dunk your head immediately if you were to get some in your eye.

The other hazard are actually more a matter of irritation than danger. Unlike other pool gases (ozone is notable), hydrogen chloride is SERIOUSLY irritating, before it's actually dangerous. If you get it on your skin, it will hurt, before it hurts you. (Sulfuric acid is the opposite, and I've still got the scars from 40 years ago to prove it.) Likewise, if you inhale it, you'll back off (WAY OFF) before you actually can't breathe.

But it's not mutagenic -- after all, the SAME exact acid is present in your stomach at fairly high concentrations!

So, I'd just recommend reading the instructions, linked in my signature, and then going at it.

[fiveUNDERfive]

ok. So I'm safe as long as I use eye protection and follow your precautions. We have a Lowe's 5 mins away. I just (within the past few hours) added 18 ounces of the pH down. Can I retest and add muriatic acid today, or should I wait until tomorrow? How long after I add the acid can I add bleach? Also, how long after adding the acid can we swim? A few hours? The next day? And, where can I buy replacement CYA reagent for the Walmart kit? I don't really trust the strips for the CYA, and I am not sure if I am keeping my chlorine high enuf, based on how much CYA I (think I) have.

Thanks so much! Sorry for all the questions. I am really not a dumb (graying) blonde, but when it comes to this pool chem, I often feel like one.

J

[aylad]

As long as you use eye protection and don't breathe the fumes, you'll be fine. I have had it splash on my hand before, but if that happens you just dunk it in the pool and wash it off, and it's no big deal. You can retest after adding the dry acid--give it an hour or so to circulate, and then test again, and then add your muriatic if you need to. After adding the MA, again let it circulate for an hour or so before testing for pH again, and you can continue this until you get the pH where you want it. You can add bleach within 15-20 minutes after the acid addition with no problems. When I use either bleach or MA, I pour it very slowly into the return stream in my deep end, so the jets help mix it and disperse it around the pool. So once you've added the MA, you just want enough time to make sure it's been pushed away from the addition point before adding the bleach. The same goes for swimming--just give it an hour or so to make sure there aren't any "hot pockets" of bleach or acid in the pool, and it's fine to swim.

You can buy replacement CYA reagent online at several places, including amatoindustries.com, taylortechnologies. com, or spspoolspas.com (that's where I get mine).

Don't rely on the test strips for CYA--they're just not reliable enough.

Janet

[Watermom]

To answer your questions:
-- go ahead and add more acid today after you test pH to see where it is
-- fine to add bleach 15 minutes after adding acid --- just need to get it mixed it a bit first
-- You can swim 15-30 minutes after adding acid or bleach. As long as it has had time to mix in so nobody swims into a hot spot, you're fine.
-- You can buy CYA reagent (R-0013) from the test kit link in Ben's signature above.

By the way, will you please take a minute and add your pool's information to our pool chart? It makes it easier for someone here on the forum to give you good advice to you.

Pool Chart Entry Form
Pool Chart Results

EDIT -- Looks like Jan was posting while I was typing but our advice is nearly all the same.

[fiveUNDERfive]

Thanks for your help. I'll report back after we get some MA. Approx how long (how many 1/4 gallon additions) will it take to lower the pH? Will the MA also help my incredibly high TA? I am using well water if that makes any difference. Last summer, when we filled, our outdoor hoses came off AFTER all our water treatment (iron out, water softener, greenlight filter) but this year hubby had the hose bays changed so they are directly off the well. We have had to fill slightly more often than last year bc we have a slow leak near the pump. I am not sure if that is the reason for my increased difficulty or not.

BTW, I did complete the pool chart earlier before I posted.

Thanks for your help!
J

[aylad]

As your pH comes down, so will your alk--and as the pool is aerated by swimming, splashing, etc, the TA will slowly be stripped away (until it raises again when you top off your pool )

There's not much of a way for me to guess how many additions it will take to bring the pH down--a lot depends on how high the pH really is, what your TA is (the higher the TA, the more likely it is to take more MA) and what your actual doses really are. You'll just have to add, test, and adjust--trying to shoot for exact numbers doesn't work very well!

Janet

[fiveUNDERfive]

Tested late afternoon.

CL 1-3
pH 7.8
TA 190

Added MA.

Tested now (about 2-3 hrs later)
CL 1
pH 7.5-7.8
TA 240!

Why did the TA increase with the MA??

Ugh. This is so frustrating. I see no difference in the water's clarity...still very cloudy. Now perhaps slightly green tinged.

I added the rest of the pH down (just to use it up -about 9 oz). Waited a few mins and added a gallon of bleach. Will test again in the am.

[aylad]

Acid isn't the only thing that will cure cloudy water--and with a CYA of 50, a Cl of 1-3 isn't nearly enough to keep algae from growing in the pool. I would shock the pool to 15-18 ppm, using bleach, and hold it there until you can go from sundown to sunup without losing more than 1 ppm of chlorine. I'm betting your cloudy water is an algae bloom, not a pH issue.....

Janet

[fiveUNDERfive]

Thanks Janet. That's what I am now wondering, since my cloudiness has turned greenish. I added a gallon last night, and my walmart kit is reading "at least" 5 (it's slightly darker yellow than that). How do I know if I am at 15-18? Add 2 more gallons and "hope?" This am my TA is down to 180 and the pH is 7.5 Should I add some more MA too?