Want to get the chemicals right ...

[Debits26]

I am sick to death of my pool right now, and would like some advice to help get the chemicals in balance. We've had the pool for 15 years, and have had a hard time with it for the last 5.
This year, we lost it to green murk about two weeks ago, and went to the pool store to see what to do. When they told us it needed 95 bags of shock, we drained and refilled with our well water. We used a Metal Trap attachment on our hose to try to trap as much of the iron as possible, and used a separate 1.25 hp submersible pump to pump the water in the pool through a Culligan-type under-sink filter to trap even more of the iron. So here's where we stand today.

We have not added any chemical, and took a sample to the pool store today. The measures the computer gave us:
Water is basically clear, but not sparkly, and maybe a tiny bit green.
pH: 8.2 (I know this needs to come down and just added a gallon of muriatic acid)
TC: .5
FC: 0
CYA: 0
TA: 288
Hardness: 325
Saturation index: 1.2
Pool is 50,000 gallons, L-shaped, plaster bottom, fiberglass sides.

Store wants us to add 15 lbs of stabilizer and 24 bags of Burnout 35, along with 10 pts of muriatic acid a day for 5 days and 5 qts of stain inhibitor..
It's a BioGuard store, so we won't buy from them (too expensive), so any product recommendations, along with process recommendations will be greatly appreciated!!

[aylad]

Hi, and welcome to the forum!!
It might help if you log out, go to the main forum page, and open the first set of threads in the second section, called chemistry for Intex pools. I realize your pool isn't an Intex, but the first sticky in that subforum, called " before you fill your...well water!" will apply to most any pool with metals in the water. Read through there, and if it doesn't answer your questions, ome back and post them, and we'll be glad to try to help.

[Debits26]

Thanks for answering me! I read the post you recommended, but still have questions ...

The pool store analysis (test strip through a computer?!) said we have no metals. I guess it is possible that the metals are either sequestered or mostly out because we have been continuously filtering through our sand filter and the extra "culligan" filter.

What I need to know is:
1. What is the best way to get the chlorine up to maintenance levels.
Super shock with about 10-12 lbs of dichlor (chlorine and stabilizer) shock. Or get it up slowly with separate CYA and liquid chlorine? I don't want to keep pouring chemicals and dollars in and having the chlorine disappear constantly.

Can you help with that question? My husband is going to another pool store today to compare their advice with what the other store said and what I've read here.

Thanks for

[PoolDoc]

In many parts of the country the cheapest chlorine you can get is the PoolBrand dichlor 50# bucket for about $105. I just got the last 3 buckets at my local store this AM, because we're draining a local country club's pool after a storm broke 3 glass tables in both their main pool and their kiddie pool.

With a 50K gallon pool, 50lbs of dichlor is about 66 ppm of chlorine and 60 ppm of stabilizer. If your water is CLEAN and has no particular chlorine demand, that should last you about a month, and give you time to come up with something else. I'm not sure what part of Illinois you're in, or what your swim season is like.

But, with a 50K gallon pool, your probably want to see if you can get a 100# container of cal hypo. If you were just now starting the season, you could probably do very well with a 50# of dichlor, a 100# of cal hypo, 4 - 8 gallons of muriatic acid, and possibly a few boxes of borax. Depending on what's in your well water, you might need additional chemicals to manage that.

But, if you've been getting your advice from a pool store, it's no surprise you've had problems for the last 5 years. Pool chemical companies are desperate to keep up sales, in the face of losses to Asian chemicals, to SWCG's and to their on predatory treatment practices. As a result, their chemical recommendations have gotten 'goopier' and 'goopier' with more and more emphasis on high margin, low function, specialty chemicals.

[Debits26]

Sorry, I must not have been clear what I was asking ... I wanted to know if we should add chlorine slowly or full shock strength in one shot we went for the one shot and was probably not the right approach ...
Values were:
FC: 0 ppm
TC: 1.1 ppm
Ph 7.9
TA: 309
CYA: 5 ppm
Hardness: 230ppm
Metals: 0
TDS: 500ppm
We added 4 quarts GLB Algaemycin 2000, brought the ph down to 7.2, added 8 lbs of stabilizer through the skimmer then 3 hours later poured in 8 gallons of liquid chlorine. Next morning pool was clear but the color of tea (brown). Now, chlorine (free and total) is higher than my ability to quantify with my test strips. Ph is 7.0. Added 1 quart clarifier and 3 qts metal magnet. Now the pool is green, somewhat cloudy, holding chlorine, but making me want to throw in the towel. Anybody want to weigh in on what's next?

[PoolDoc]

We added 4 quarts GLB Algaemycin 2000, brought the ph down to 7.2, added 8 lbs of stabilizer through the skimmer then 3 hours later poured in 8 gallons of liquid chlorine. Next morning pool was clear but the color of tea (brown). Now, chlorine (free and total) is higher than my ability to quantify with my test strips. Ph is 7.0. Added 1 quart clarifier and 3 qts metal magnet. Now the pool is green, somewhat cloudy, holding chlorine, but making me want to throw in the towel. Anybody want to weigh in on what's next?

Sounds like you may have iron, and that that's what your dealer considered as a possibility . . . but he loaded you up with algaecide too.

If it was brown, but is now green and CLEAR, there's a fair chance you've got rust on the pool bottom. Color wise, blue water + orange rust creates an apparent green tint. So . . . vacuum the pool. If nothing changes, toss a couple of vitamin C tabs on the bottom, and see if it changes color -- if there are iron stains, the tabs will clear a small area.

Meanwhile:

+ It's much easier to answer your questions, when we have the details about your pool in one place. We often 'waste' the first few posts back and forth collecting information. So, please complete our new Pool Chart form -- it takes about 30 seconds, but will save much more than that.

Pool Chart Entry Form
Pool Chart Results

+ Pool tests for metals aren't always reliable, for a variety of reasons. If there's a chance you may hve iron or other metals in the water you fill your pool with, using a bucket test can verify the problem: http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?16946

[Debits26]

I added my pool info to the pool chart. Our well water is FULL of iron. We try to filter out as much as possible when we add water using a Metal Trap on the hose and a separate little submersible pump to send the water through an under sink filter contraption.

[PoolDoc]

I looked at your chart; that's a big pool; small errors in chemistry are going to cost you a LOT of money.

[PoolDoc]

I had to dig some more, to get the info I needed. Do these things:

1. Go to the Walmart in Woodstock, and get the HTH 6-way drops kit -- it shows to be currently in stock.

2. Go to the Sams Club in Crystal Lake and get their PoolBrand Chlorinating Granules - 50 lbs. for ~$115
If you aren't a member, call and see if you can get a guest pass.

3. Go to Amazon, and order a K2006 test kit (yes, you will need that, too)

Taylor K2006A (3/4 oz bottles) @ Amazon
Taylor K2006C (2 oz bottles) @ Amazon

4. Go to the Lake in the Hills Lowes, and get their "Crown" muriatic acid -- 6 gallons to start. While you're there, get some nitrile gloves (blue) and inexpensive safety glasses, if you don't have any. Do NOT get any of the 'safer' muriatic acid; DO read the muriatic acid sticky in my signature BEFORE using the muriatic.

5. As soon as you can conveniently do so, order 50 or 100 lbs of calcium hypochlorite from Amazon. Chlorinating with this will help remove iron, but you'll have to use the dichlor first, to get your stabilizer up.

6. See if you can get a small amount of DE powder from your pool store, or Lowes or Walmart. Add 2 - 4 cups directly to the skimmer, and then watch to see if the powder shoots back into the pool. If it does, your filter needs repair. If you can, open your filter ANYHOW, and make sure it's full with sand. If not, get enough filter sand from your pool store, or possibly Lowes, to fill it.

7. Make a dated list, as accurately as possible, of ALL the chemicals you've used in the last months, with EXACT product name, quantities and dates. Also include an inventory of what chemicals you have on hand.

8. Post that list AND test results from the HTH kit ASAP.

9. Begin dosing with the dichlor (Sams) ASAP. Start with 1 cup doses added directly to the pool - watch to see if there is any color change in the water. If there is not, gradually add larger and larger doses over an hour's interval, till you've added about 12 cups (~4 ppm of chlorine). If all goes well, you'll should begin adding 6 cups each AM and 8 cups each PM, till your pool begins holding 2 - 4 ppm of chlorine throughout the day.

10. Once you have established a constant chlorine level, BRUSH the pool completely. Then, add a 6 - 12 cup dose of dichlor after brushing.

11. Wait at least 12 hours, and then VACUUM the pool completely. Add at least a 6 cup dose of dichlor when you do.

12. Do NOT let your chlorine level go below 1 ppm at ANY time; it should be over 4 ppm EVERY night, AND first thing in the AM.

13. Meanwhile, begin adding 1 gallon muriatic acid doses till your pH reaches 7.4 or a little lower. Hold it at that level.

14. Tell me the EXACT model and make of your sand filter.

15. Verify your pool chart info: you have no pool heater and no other pool equipment except your feeder.

[Debits26]

Couple of questions:
1. We have 8 lbs of stabilizer on hand. Should we use that and liquid chlorine instead of the Dichlor?
2. We have 11 bags of Sam's pool shock on hand. Is that the same as the granules?
3. Should we be keeping our inline chlorinator with 3 in trichlor tabs while we are getting in balance?

I appreciate your help very much!!