Convert indoor Baquacil pool to salt water chlorination?

[PoolDoc]

IMPORTANT:
If you are reading this, and are NOT the original poster, you need to know that this applies to an INDOOR CONCRETE pool. While this could be readily adapted to an outdoor pool, there are several cautions to be observed.
+ FIRST, only concrete pools in DRY ground can safely be drained. Other pools -- especially vinyl pools -- require special methods, tools, or precautions.
+ SECOND, we don't recommend PHMB water treatment. If it works for you, that's fine, but it's expensive, more complicated than advertised, and is NOT a full spectrum sanitizer, because it is ineffective against viruses..
+ THIRD, Baquacil CDX complicates things in ways we don't understand. It contains DHM, dimethyl hydantoin, a chemical first used in pools as the basis of bromine tablets. It has a history of causing problems in pools, beyond the problems PHMB (Baquacil) already has.

The approach below uses everything possible to create an inhospitable environment for water mold while avoiding chemicals that make things unpleasant for people. BUT it is NOT a magic bullet. Once you've had water mold, you must remain vigilant to make sure you don't get it again. Water mold / white mold is an out-of-control biofilm, and these are notoriously hard to eradicate. Doing so requires making sure the needed PHYSICAL cleaning is taking place, by brushing, vacuuming, and filter maintenance, as well as maintaining higher than normal chemical levels (60+ ppm of peroxide, PHMB, and borates), AND replacing the standard algaecide with polyquat (aka Baquacil Performance Algaecide).

1. Drain 100% of your pool (if the ground is dry enough so there's no risk of 'floating' the pool!)
   
   
2. Replace your sand.
   
   
3. Backflush your lines into the pool, by running water into your filter or pump. Brush, spray, clean, rinse everything you can and re-drain remnants. Pour 1:3 mix of 6% bleach + water into skimmer, pump, filter (after replacing sand!), pipes, and main drain. If you have a light, take it out, and clean behind light. Allow bleach to stand overnight. Re-rinse & redrain.
   
   
4. Order
   + a bottle of Softswim 4-Way Test Strips @ Amazon
   + Taylor K-2005 Complete Test Kit - High Range @ Amazon (not our normal K-2006)
   + bottle of Lamotte Insta Test Borate test strips (NOT @ Amazon)
   
   
5. Order or purchase
   + (4) quarts of polyquat algaecide ( = Baquacil Performance Algicide) [ 7 ppm per quart ]

   Kem-Tek 60% polyquat @ Amazon
   Nava 60% polyquat @ Amazon

   + (2) lbs of EDTA stain / scale control ( = Baquacil Metal Control) @ Amazon
   
   + (12) gallons of 27% peroxide ( = Baquacil Oxidizer) [ 10 ppm per gallon ] @ Amazon Splashes / Aqua-Silk
   
   + (1) lb sodium thiosulfate ( = Baquacil Chlorine Neutralizer) @ Amazon
   
   + (25) boxes of 20 Mule Team Borax ( = Bioguard Optimizer) [ 2.6 ppm borates per box ] @ Walmart
   
   + (8) gallons of muriatic acid @ Lowes
   
   + (25) lbs of calcium chloride (unless you KNOW your fill water is 'hard') @ Amazon
   
   + (1) CuLator @ Amazon
   The CuLator product is a special patented plastic material, contained in a bag that goes into the skimmer, that can slowly take metals OUT of your pool water. We think it works, and have some evidence that it does, but not proof yet. (Not likely to be available locally.)

   1 ppm Culator @ Amazon
   1.5 ppm Culator sold by Amazon, shipped from Periodic
   4 ppm Culator sold by Amazon, shipped from Periodic
   Poolmaster 16242 Poolmaster Skimmer Basket Liner @ Amazon (to protect CuLator from being damaged by scum)

   + (10) gallons of 20% PHMB santizer ( = Baquacil or Softswim 'B') Splashes 4 gal / Aqua-Silk 1 gal / Softswim 2 gal [ 8 ppm per gallon ]
   
   
6. Add 6 ppm polyquat (3/4 quart) once pool is 1/8 full
   
   
7. Add 1 lb of sodium thiosulfate at 1/4 full.
   
   
8. Use muriatic acid as needed to hold pH to near 7.0, while filling.
   
   
9. Add borax as needed to keep pH above 6.8 (1/2 box doses)
   
   
10. Add 2 gallons of 27% peroxide at 1/4 full, and every 1/4 after (8 gallons total - 80 ppm)
    
    
11. Add 1 pound EDTA @ 1/2 full.
    
    
12. Begin circulating pool as soon as you can start pump (Operate pump 24/7).
    
    
13. Add 8 gallons of PHMB (64 ppm) once pump is running.
    
    
14. Add 2 gallons of muriatic acid to the POOL.
15. Immediately add 3 boxes of borax to your skimmers (SLOWLY, pump running).
    
    
16. Wait 2 hours, then test pH - add 1 box of borax if pH is below 6.8; add 1/2 gallon of acid if pH is above 7.4.
    
17. Repeat # 12, 13, & 14 till 22 boxes of borax have been added.
    
    
18. Adjust pH to near 7.2.
    
    
19. Put skimmer sock and CuLator in skimmer.
    
    
20. Brush, vacuum pool. Wait 24 hours. Backwash.
    
    
21. Keep pool at ~60+ PHMB & peroxide for at least 2 weeks. Check every 2 - 3 days.
    
    
22. Dose with 1/2 quart of polyquat 2x per week.
    
    
23. After 1 week, if there is no sign of water mold, begin adjusting calcium level

.

[PoolDoc]

Ok, done except for typos.

A couple of references:
http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?11784
http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?17276
http://www.troublefreepool.com/baqua...da-t40559.html
http://www.archchemicals.com/Fed/BAQ...t_up_49309.pdf
http://www.ultramodern.com/Bulletins/BUL-105.pdf

[PoolDoc]

cchase, if you end up following this, I'd be interested in total cost. It looked like it was gonna be very expensive. Maybe not as expensive as a Baquacil to chlorine conversion, followed by installation of a new SWCG system. But still, really expensive.

And, a caution. Do NOT think you can go at this a little at at time. With algae, and other messes, you have to kill it outright, or you end up wasting all your work and money. The approach I described uses everything I can, within the PHMB method: fresh uncontaminated water + new filter media + 60 ppm of PHMB, peroxide, & borates, plus 4 - 6 ppm of polyquat, + metal control. The ONLY thing left is to use the standard PHMB algaecide, which might help if you add enough to make the water soapy. But, it's bitter, foamy, and unpleasant to swim in.

The other white mold / water mold cleanup products try to add a halogen (bromine) without doing a full conversion. It's a mess.

Oh, one more thing. The low initial pH, + EDTA should solubilize any metals. Using the CuLator should strip them from the water. Since metals catalyze PHMB breakdown, using the CuLator to maintain very low metal levels should make BOTH your peroxide and your PHMB last longer. You can continue to use the bag so long as it's not gummed up or discolored.

Here's what the plastic beads look like, when they have collected metal from the water:

[cchase009]

All,

thanks for the recommendations. I read the thread ACIAM posted and it gave me an idea I'd like to run by you all.

My pool has a spa connected to it. I was able to drain and refill the spa and my spa has 4 return lines/jets. I have not run the pump since adding the water nor have I added any chemicals - the water in the spa is super clear while the water in the pool is not. I added 6500 gallons of water to the pool and spa with the majority going into the pool.

What I add the chlorine or sodium percarbonate to the spa only and run the pump and the blower for the jets? Could I knock out the goo in the filter and the plumbing for the spa with this method? If yes, then I only need to worry about the to returns and main drain for the pool as far as goo goes.

I am thinking the right way?

C. Chase

[PoolDoc]

If you mean, can you use the isolated spa piping to clean out the water mold in the filter and spa piping, prior to draining your main pool, then the answer is maybe. It depends on your piping and valves. If you want to try that, I'd

1. Drain the pool & spa.
2. Replace the sand.
3. Refill the spa, and superchlorinate.
4. Drain the spa, refill pool and spa and start the Baquacil based cleanup.

[cchase009]

Ok, I need to start at step 2 as I already drained and refilled the spa.

I will replace the sand and superchlorinate. I believe this is just household bleach continuously. When will I know its done?

Regarding replacing the sand, I'm told its pretty tricky. Any tips on doing this right?

Regards,

C. Chase

[PoolDoc]

You need a BIG water-resistant shop vac, a parts manual for your filter, fresh sand, and a place to put the old sand.

How tricky it is, depends on your filter. It's a lot easier on side mount filters, than those with the valve on top of the filter. Regardless, make sure you know what all the parts in the filter are, BEFORE you start. Also be careful about the laterals -- they are pretty fragile, and get worse as time goes on. It would be a good idea to have a couple waiting before you start.

But . . . actually, I thought you'd hire it done.

[cchase009]

Ok Pool Forum,

I went all in today. I bought 10 gallons of bleach and fully intended to do the spa only until I rolled back my pool solar cover....WHOA, the crap was everywhere. dumped 6 gallons into the pool and it is now green. I know, I know, I was afraid of the off-gassing but I sent my family out and all my inside doors are very snug. The pool flat out disgusted me.

Ok. I have the instructions from link on the Bacqua forum that references Pool Breeze. I cannot locate the version that mentions the generic supplies. Is that available? I am going to get 10 - 20 more bottles as my returns are in the shallow end and I think its going to take a while to turn the water over.

Any other tips?

Regards,

C. Chase

[cchase009]

Hello out there. I drained the pool and power-washed with a bleach mix. I also changed the bulbs and the bacquaGOOP was everywhere. I spent the majority of Saturday power washing as I noticed little pink bits sticking to the wall. Pool will be full by Thursday...running my well for 4-5 hours at a time with success. I alos learned my pool has 18K gallons vs. the 25K everyone told me before. So the quest ion is, do I truly have to change the sand or can I chemically treat it? I cannot get the threaded multi-port off for the life of me....its supposed to be hand tight. If I absolutely have to change it I will hire it out. Please advise.

Regards,

C. Chase

[PoolDoc]

You can try treating it. But I don't think it works that well. You may need a strap wrench to remove the filter valve.