Run around at pool store

[PoolDoc]

My bad. Sorry; I should have searched the chart. This is something new, for us, and I've had no time to organize it further. Regarding the restrictions, we seem to have the spammer problem under control. Frankly the reason I haven't lifted the restrictions is just to keep people out, period. There are more of y'all than there are of us, and traffic has gone through the roof here. We're not sure why, but we can not keep up.

And, I'd rather keep people out altogether -- they can still lurk and read -- then let them in, and ignore them. We're trying to figure out how to handle the increased interest, without cutting quality, but it looks like any real answers will have to wait till next year. However, you now are among those with access.

Anyhow, here's what you should do, short term with your pool:

1. Make sure you understand the Best Guess chart.

2. Get some muriatic acid, maybe 2 gallons, at Lowes, Home Depot, etc. Read the muriatic acid page, and then lower your pH to near 7.0, and keep it there. This will help stop scaling, and will gradually lower your TA. However, once you get to pH 7.0, it will require repeated additions of acid to keep it there. That's OK.

3. Do NOT add any baking soda (alk up) or sodium carbonate (pH up). If you should need to raise your pH, use 20 Mule Team borax ONLY.

4. Find a CLEAN white 5 gallon bucket, and get a gallon of fresh PLAIN 6% household bleach, so we can do a bucket test on your pool water.

5. Continue to shock each evening. If you currently have no algae, 1 -2 gallons of plain bleach nightly should be sufficient.

6. Let me know when you are ready to go on the bucket test. We can use that, to get an idea of what's wrong with your pool, and what it will take to fix it.

7. Finally, make as complete list with EXACT chemical names, of ALL chemicals you've used since opening. I'm particularly looking for info on the 'shock' material you've used AND any granular algaecides.

[PoolDoc]

This thread had lost its way, so I moved all the discussions about missing posts here:
http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?16908

[miker1755]

Pool Doc-

My answers to your questions follow your questions below....(in bold)

1. Make sure you understand the Best Guess chart....(I have printed it out and studied it and I believe that I do. With my CYA in the 100 range if I interpert the chart correctly it tells me that my CL level needs to be between 8 to 15 for FC and 25 to truly "shock". Of course this begs the questions if I should drain and replace water to bring down CYA?)
2. Get some muriatic acid, maybe 2 gallons, at Lowes, Home Depot, etc. Read the muriatic acid page, and then lower your pH to near 7.0, and keep it there. This will help stop scaling, and will gradually lower your TA. However, once you get to pH 7.0, it will require repeated additions of acid to keep it there. That's OK. (DONE)

3. Do NOT add any baking soda (alk up) or sodium carbonate (pH up). If you should need to raise your pH, use 20 Mule Team borax ONLY. ( Got it. Ususally doing nothing raises my pH.)

4. Find a CLEAN white 5 gallon bucket, and get a gallon of fresh PLAIN 6% household bleach, so we can do a bucket test on your pool water. ( Ready and awaiting further instructions...I think. Is CLEAN the real requirment as I have a brand new but BLUE bucket. I have clean but not new white buckets that chlorine came in. Which is preferred?)

5. Continue to shock each evening. If you currently have no algae, 1 -2 gallons of plain bleach nightly should be sufficient. (How long should I expect to do this? Should I buy out the local WalMart of bleach?)

6. Let me know when you are ready to go on the bucket test. We can use that, to get an idea of what's wrong with your pool, and what it will take to fix it. (Ready NOW!)

7. Finally, make as complete list with EXACT chemical names, of ALL chemicals you've used since opening. I'm particularly looking for info on the 'shock' material you've used AND any granular algaecides. (Did this before but it got lost. I'll save a copy and cut & paste as necessary in the future which of course means it won't be necessary! Here goes.....


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++
Note that I am in Houston Texas so we do not open and close our pools with the seasons. We heat and use our spa in the winter and that is about it.

I "normally" chlorinate with 3" pucks sold by my local store under their brand name...but it's Trichloro-s-triazinetrione 99%

I historically did not ever shock much but have needed to more recently (last year or 2) with something sold under the name of "Zappit 73". It's Calcium Hypochlorite 73% I have used a ton of this stuff (2+ 25# buckets) lately but to no avail although I have determined that I probably was not using enough to really get the FC level where it needed to be to "shock" especially considering the Best Guess chart as I understand it.

I was never as regular as I probably should have been but I did a weekly maintenance does of Metal Out / Stain Blocker but no where are ingredients listed but the stuff is clear and looks like water. Could be just a scam to get money from me but I didn''t bother to taste it to be sure just the same.

Of late, I have been using the HTH brand of chlorinating granuals (Calcium Hypochlorite 47.6%) just to try and quickly establish a chlorine level when it appeared there was none as I know why I have algae when there is no chlorine. I bought a 16 pound bucket and still have not used all of it so obviously I have not used that much of this stuff.

My store sells something called "Blackout" and per the website it is: CHEMICAL NAMES & SYNONYMS: Trichloroisocyanuric acid; Trichloro-s-triazinetrione compound CHEMICAL FAMILY: Chlorinated Isocyanurates CHEMICAL FORMULA: 81% - C N O Cl TRADE NAME: Nuclo Shock, Ortex Pool Shock and Private Label DESCRIPTION: White crystalline granules having a chlorine odor.CAS NO. 87-90-1 NFPA RATINGS (SCALE 0-4): HEALTH=2 FIRE=0 REACTIVITY=2 HMIS RATINGS (SCALE 0-4): HEALTH=2 FLAMMABILITY=0 REACTIVITY=2
It was sold to me as some sort of "Super Chlorinator" that will kill whatever is haunting you but it hasn't solved my current problem. It has been used on occasion, more so recently. Not in relative huge quantities. I was originally sold this stuff to kill the small black dots of what I was told is "black algae" that are nearly impossible to get rid of in my experience. I stll have the small black dots of algae and would welcome any advice on getting rid of them!

Note that my pool is 13 years old and I am still on my original plaster but am looking at re-plastering at the end of this season unless told otherwise. Generally I have been told that I have already gottem more years out of my plaster than is typical but not sure if that is true!

Of last the local pool store told me my phosphates were + 1000 so I used something from Natural Chemicals out of Canada called "Phos Free Commercial Strength" as well as "Pool Perfect+ PhosFree" for weekly maintenance. No where on either of these bottles does it tell me what this stuff really is.

Quite some time ago I used stuff marketed under the name of "No Mor Problems". It seems widely available so you probably know what is in it but I was told that it was an algecide mostly. I had a half gallon of that stuff laying around that was so old it lost it color so I dumped it in the pool just to get rid of it thinking it couldn't hurt. Golf courses would be jealous of the beautiful green it turned my pool, almost immediately. I won't do that again! I have also sparingly used the liquid HTH Algecide sold by Home Depot occasionally but not reallt that much. That I know of I have never used any granular aglecides.

Typically my pool water is crystal crear so I have very rarely used clarifiers.

I did recently completely break down and clean my DE filter but that hasn't really helped either.

Even now with 2 or 3 days of a gallon or 2 of bleach in the evening and my chlorine feeder full and maxed open, when I get home in the afternoon, my FC level is O or negligible.

That is about it. Hope that helps in your diagnosis Doc. I await further instructions!)

[PoolDoc]

1. Please start using this form. I've already entered your 6/12 tap water and pool results. You please enter any subsequent results + chemicals used. The 2nd link takes you to the output.

Miker1755 form
Miker1755 results

2. A blue bucket may be OK, so long as it's not so dark blue you can't seen the bottom clearly.

3. Bucket test for lime softening:

• fill the bucket w/ ~4 gallons of pool water.
• add 1 tablespoon of bleach & mix.
• add 1 tablespoon of either pH UP (sodium carbonate) OR Arm & Hammer Washing Soda
• cover and wait 24 hours
• inspect; note results; recover & wait 24 hours
• inspect again; report results

4. Pool test:
Add 2 cups of washing soda directly to the skimmer (first remove any tabs present)
After 1 hour, check filter pressure; clean if needed; repeat dose.
Repeat 2 more times (8 cups total)
Wait 4 hours; test pH *and* total alkalinity.

5. Order a K2006 -- to run down your chlorine demand, you'll need a more accurate test than the HTH 6-way

Lemme know if you have any problems.

[miker1755]

Arm & Hammer Washing Soda? Is that different from 20 Mule Team Borax? Or no difference?

[Watermom]

They are not the same thing. Washing soda is sodium carbonate. It will raise pH and alk. Borax is sodium tetraborate. It will raise pH without affecting alk much.

[miker1755]

k2006 kit received today. Bucket test and pool test results added to history remarks along with latest test details. FC & CC 111. Algae bloom seems to be under control. Chlorine level seems to be being maintained. Will continue to monitor closely. For pool of my size, what should normal expected liquid chlorine addition on what basis should be expected to be added? (1 gal per day, 1/2 gal every other day etc.?)