High pH

[Philsludge]

I have an inground pool in Florida.
It has an Aqua-Rite Chlorinator, and solar heater. The pool is about 7 years old and has not be much of a problem.

I seemed to be having some issues with the pool coating and started paying much more attention to the pH.
The issues seemed to stop any further degrading of the coating and I was thrilled.

My issue is the pool has a very high pH, 8.6+ most of the time. To bring it into normal 7.8 to 8.2 (for me) I have to add acid (muriatic) at least twice per week.

I know that Sodium Hypochlorite has a very high pH, and I assume chlorine also has a high pH.
Is this the cause of the high pH? Also the water added comes from the Melbourne, Florida water system and carries an elevated ph normally.

[waterbear]

What is your TA? Assuming that you do not have curing plaster the main cause of high pH in any pool is outgassing of carbon dioxide and tha higher the TA the faster CO2 will gas off.
Posting a full set of test results will tell us more about that is really going on in your pool. Include the stabilizer, salt, and calcium hardness readings. pH probems like yours in a salt pool indicate improper water balance. Sodium hypochlorite is actually pretty close to pH neutral on use and the pH rise from SWCGs is easy to minimize with proper water chemisry adjustments.
Without knowing more about your pool it's difficult to say more (incluidng the pool surface and whether you have any water features that cause aeration such as waterfalls, attached spa, deck jets, etc.)
If you don't have one you need a GOOD test kit. The Taylor K-2006 is the recommended one.

I seemed to be having some issues with the pool coating and started paying much more attention to the pH.
The issues seemed to stop any further degrading of the coating and I was thrilled.
Could you elaborate? Normally high pH will tend to promote scaling and it just one part of the water balance so I suspect that you were not fully testing and balancing your water (and, I suspect, still are not).

My issue is the pool has a very high pH, 8.6+ most of the time. To bring it into normal 7.8 to 8.2 (for me) I have to add acid (muriatic) at least twice per week.
This is a water balance problem and with a SWCG the two parameter that are the main ones to look at are TA and CYA (stabilizer).

I know that Sodium Hypochlorite has a very high pH, and I assume chlorine also has a high pH.
As I said sodium hypochlorite is actually very close to pH neutral on use. Not sure what you are referring to when you say chlorine. Chlorine gas injection is acidic (and not common in residential pools). Stabilzied chloirne sources are acidic also. The hypochlorites are basically pH neutral.

Also the water added comes from the Melbourne, Florida water system and carries an elevated ph normally.

Much of Florida's water has high TA and high calcium hardness but not necessisarly a high pH. My water when I lived in Miame was very close to pH neutral, and my water when I lvied in Ft. Lauderdale and currently in N. FL is actually at a bit lower pH than I keep my pool! Some localities process the water in different ways that this can have an effect on CH, TA, and pH as it comes out of the tap. (Where I currently live they use reverse osmosis to purify our water and then mix it with non reverse osmosis water to add some of the mineral content back.)

[BigDave]

What's your TA? High TA and SWCG use tend to cause high pH.

Bleach is basic but it's reactions are acidic, use of Sodium Hypochlorite is nearly pH neutral.

WaterBear has had success limiting SWCG pH rise by keeping 70 TA, maximum SWCG mfg. reccommended CYA level and adding 50ppm Borates to the water.

[aylad]

Bleach is basic but it's reactions are acidic, use of Sodium Hypochlorite is nearly pH neutral.

.

These two are the same thing....

[PoolDoc]

Phil;

You have two issues, and you need to keep them separate.

1. For whatever reason, your pool's pH has run high, and for whatever reason, you have not responded full to this. Sustained high pH **will** damage your pool. You need to do what it takes, WHATEVER that is, to manage your ph. You need to get muriatic acid, learn to handle it and so on. But first, you need to make SURE you have a good test kit -- either a HTH 6-way, stocked at some Walmarts or a Taylor K-2006 (link in my sig) will do for now. But get one, and check your pool. Then, do what you need to do, whatever it is.

2. Your SECOND issue, is to discover why your pH continues to rise. It could be chemicals you use, it could be the source water, it could be a fountain you have. But, this issue is SECOND. You need to fix the FIRST one, first.

Best wishes.

[BigDave]

Sorry, Janet's right (of course) bleach and sodium hypochlorite are the same thing. Let me restate:

Bleach (Sodium Hypochlorite) is basic but it's reactions are acidic, use of bleach (Sodium Hypochlorite) is nearly pH neutral.

[Philsludge]

OK, thanks for the advice. Will get to "Pinch-a-Penny" for some new chemicals or a test kit a little better than what I have. Have been using Muriatic acid with varying results.....pH does not stay put.

Source water is always a problem near me: Melbourne, Florida water system carries an elevated pH level on a routine basis.

Will pay more attention to Alkalinity.

Thanks Again.

Phil

[PoolDoc]

Will get to "Pinch-a-Penny" for some new chemicals or a test kit a little better than what I have. Have been using Muriatic acid with varying results.

Get a Taylor K-2005 -- if Pinch a Penny has it -- and then order a K-1515 from the test kit info page in my signature. OR, just order a K-2006 to begin with. If the K-2005 is NOT available locally, see if you can get a HTH 6-way test kit (not strips!) from Walmart. Some Walmarts have them.

There are NO other locally available "good" test kits, except the HTH 6-way or the K-2005, and both of them have to supplemented.

[waterbear]

I have never seen a K-2006 in Pinch a Penny (and was told they do not carry them) and lately I have not seen K-2005 in the one local to me, only the smaller and less expensive Taylor kits. Also, I have never seen the HTH test kit in a Florida Walmart (and I have checked in various areas of the state when I have gone camping--yes I DO have another passion besides pools and computers!, only AquaChem test strips.) Ordering the K-2006 online might be the best choice!