Hello summer, hello algae, hello pool forum!

[True Blue]

Well, it has been almost a month since I opened my pool and started this thread. After who knows how many gallons of chlorine and how many $100s spent on running a pump 24/7, with a cloudy pool still losing more than 1ppm of Cl each night, I decided to go a different route than the "stay the course! Bleach and filtering will clear it up!" and added a floc. Results: a pool that we could see the bottom of, a precipitate that was vacuumed to waste and happy friends and family that can swim.

My thoughts:
1) I wasted too much money and time in "staying the course."
2) People need to be referred to doing the bucket test with floc much more quickly (or at all...)
3) BBB is not the answer to all pool chemistry problems.

[PoolDoc]

BBB means different things to different people. Unfortunately, a lot of people mean literally "bleach, borax and baking soda". But it was never that, to me (and it was my idea!). Bleach, borax and baking soda were just tools to achieve the best, easiest and cheapest pool care -- sometimes they are the best tool; sometimes now. So, if you mean you can't solve all pool problems with actual bleach, borax and baking soda . . . I've ALWAYS thought that, myself.

I don't disagree with what you are saying about floc, either. Well not exactly.

The problem is, we have had no way to recommend it. There are 3 possible flocs we can recommend: alum, PAC (polyaluminum chloride) and 'others'.

Alum works well in some cases and not others, but it's ALWAYS tricky to use. When potable water plants use it, they run jar tests with varying doses of alum, at varying pH and TA levels, till they find the combo that works on their influent water THAT time. Next time, they run those again, since the doses may not be the same. And sometimes, there isn't a dose that works well, so they go to plan B. That makes it tough to recommend to people who aren't sure what the difference is between TA (which has to be fairly high to use alum) and CH (which doesn't have much effect).

Polyaluminum chloride works a lot like alum, but it's easier to use. Well, if you can find it. Currently, I only know of one pool brand product that is definitely PAC, and it's not commonly available. I know of a couple of others that may be PAC, but I'm not sure.

And then there's the "OTHER" category. There are a number of water treatment chemical companies that make some specialty flocs. Some of these are used by pool chemical companies. Which ones? I don't know. Where are the technical guide documents on applying those chemicals? Don't know. Can the pool chemical company labels be trusted? Not as a rule.

OK. A step further. If you use a floc wrong -- for example if you DON'T let it settle fully, but instead blow it through your filter, you can 'break' the floc particles. Then, the floc works in reverse: instead of settling the particles, it keeps them suspended. Joy! This is often going to happen on an AG pool like yours, and if the floc got shoved through the first time, you KNOW the fragments aren't going to be caught.

OK, so we can do a bucket test. Well, maybe. Did you do a bucket test first? Or did you just get some floc and use it? I'm betting it was the latter. That's what most people do. The bucket test is tedious, and based on my experience so far this year, about 1/2 the people trying it, will screw it up the first time. But, it's the ONLY way to test a mystery floc (which includes 90% of the products available).

And that brings up another issue. In order to DO the bucket test, pool owners first have to go out and spend ~$20 on a floc product. Again, based on results so far, the product will fail to work at all 50% of the time, be moderately successful 25% of the time, and be successful just 1/4 of the time. How do you think all those people -- about 1/2 -- with a useless $20 quart of floc will feel?

If I could guarantee the result you got, we'd recommend it far, far more. I'm actively looking for a reliable and consistent source of PAC which is fairly predictable in effect. But I don't have it, yet.

What is predictable is that good filtration with good (not excess) circulation works almost all the time. So, we can recommend that.

And, there are some puzzling aspects of your report. I can understand that a floc could give you the clarity you were seeking. But, I'm not currently aware of ANY mechanism by which that same floc could reduce CC formation. I'll ask Chem Geek about it. But it may be you just got doubly lucky: you happened purchase a floc product that worked well on your pool, AND you happened to floc the pool as you got to the end of the oxidizable goo. I'm not saying that IS the case; I'm only saying that it could be, and I have no way to know which one is right.

So, for now, we have to stay with what DOES work: a bigger filter, with adequate filter sand, with a smaller pump works all the time, instead of just some of the time.

But, I'm really happy, if a little puzzled, that the floc worked out for you.

[chem geek]

If the CC were from chlorine combined with organics in dead algae, then a floc could have settled them to the bottom so that CC isn't registered anymore. That seems plausible. Normally this sort of reduction occurs when the algae gets removed by filtration but obviously that wasn't working in this case.

Just so we know and can keep track of these things, what brand (name and manufacturer) of floc was used? I've heard of good results with OMNI Liquid Floc Plus for a flocculant and have personal experience with GLB Clear Blue for a clarifier.

[True Blue]

1) I did do a bucket test.
2) My CC reading had been at 0.5 or less for several weeks. My FC loss nightly, however, remained above 1.
3) Here is the floc that I used: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...T6TY/poolbooks

[chem geek]

OK thanks. That product contains aluminum chloride (along with polymeric clarifiers) which they technically call a non-alum floc because it is technically not "alum" which is aluminum sulfate hydrate, though I would say that is misleading since both form aluminum hydroxides (several species, many of these positively charged) in the water which is the actual "floc" itself. GLB is a good brand that is reasonably priced.