Super II Pump Replacment Decision

[versstef1]

Thank you. Wish you had told me that this is a game before. I was not able to discern that, and I've looked around. I don't understand how they get to call it energy efficient if it all is the same. Anyway, I pulled the trigger so that's it for. I hope you can appreciate that I am not ready for multispeed upgrade, not everyone is. I just moved i here a year ago and have had my fair share of maintenance issues. I came here for help with a specific decision, and the answer was a whole other animal. All good though, appreciate your efforts in maintaining this forum in general. Maybe someone will get something from reading my dumb post .... Namely that there is a labeling game going on.

[PoolDoc]

Stefan,

There's no way I can tell you all I know about pool pumps, or all that's relevant to your situation. I don't have time, and you wouldn't listen to that much stuff if I did.

When you first posted, you basically asked, "Should I replace just the motor, or get a whole new pump?". I told you to get a pump, and suggested that you get a two speed. It appears you're getting a single speed version of your current pump, but I can't be sure about that -- you haven't provided enough info (like pictures!).

You asked nothing about energy efficiency or comparing one pump to another. You did say you wanted to keep the current motor as a back-up. If you had gotten the 2 speed version of your current pump, you could have done exactly that.

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You haven't asked, but let me give you a general rule about buying pool products from salespeople. Actually, it's about buying from salespeople generally. Here's the rule: "You can tell when a sales person is lying, by watching their mouth. If it's moving, they're lying!"

I used to think that was a joke. Then, I thought it only applied to a few sales people. Now that I'm nearly 60, I know better. There are exceptions, of course. But, that's the general rule.

Here's another general tip about pool business. Again, it applies to consumer goods generally. When a sales person . . . or advertisement says a product is

+ more efficient;
+ chemical-free;
+ more eco-friendly;
+ or has a 50 year warranty;

you are usually about to be deceived.

You can go through the pool industry, and separate the business into those who have "Eco-" in their names, and those who don't. The businesses in the first class are, taken as a whole, and exceptions noted, shysters. It's true outside the pool business, too.

And, finally, one more rule: when shyster businesses play shyster games, like "Buy the NEW All-natural chemical-free "Eco-treat" for your pool, and save $1,000's" [As far as I know, there is NO "Eco-treat" product, at least today ], the non-shyster businesses watch, and eventually begin 'shystering' too. If those bogus claims WORK and sell product, the non-shyster companies start calling THEIR products "all-natural" and "chemical-free" (or: "high tech", "new and improved", "all new", etc) too. They feel like if the shyster's get away with it, they'll take the business from the non-shyster companies.

So, leaving a few shyster businesses standing INEVITABLY means the non-shyster companies begin to use shyster tactics, too just to keep up.

Hayward used to be one of the more stand-up pool companies. But they had to compete with Pentair, who was gobbling up every equipment maker out there, and Zodiac International, S.A.S.U, run with typical French honesty and integrity. I have no idea which one of those companies started the up-rate / full rate game, but it predates me, and I've been in the pool business nearly 30 years. Any company that didn't play would get hurt. Given a choice, very, very few companies will chose to hurt themselves, instead of you.

[versstef1]

Well, I guess I messed this up. If you only know how much effort I put into this, stress and time, that is. Lesson learned, approach it more calmly next time. But on the two speed, you lost me when you asked for drawings. I ain't got no drawings (I also don't do no plumbing and electrical goes just to the point of changing my timer motor, which I accomplished with GREAT price last year). I have a solar guy who bascially told me to avoid the two and variable speed, and that sounded good to me, keep it simple. Well, no I have about 10 years to figure it out, I suppose. Again, thanks and sorry for wasting your time.

[PoolDoc]

It doesn't actually sound like it's messed up.

It sounds like you have gotten a pump that will work, pretty much like the one you had before. That may not be optimal, but it's pretty far from messed up.

[versstef1]

By messed up I meant my foray into this forum! I didn't use it to my best advantage and I annoyed you, so that's not cool. Secondly, if the pumps are identical, I spent about $100 too much. That's not small change. Just FYI, I AGAIN called Hayward this morning (because I'm obsessed). Get this, they insist 100% that these two pumps are not identical. Whoever told me this is flat wrong, they said. The EE uses less power, period. I guess I could just choose to believe, even just to sleep better tonight than last, lol. Thanks again, I'm still just starting out and trying to be perfect is my curse.

[PoolDoc]

I looked at the Inyopools data on those pumps, and merged it. You can see it here:
https://sites.google.com/site/poolfo...yward-super-ii

Look at the delta-efficiency column -- it's all over the place. Also, Inyopools SF (service factor) data doesn't match Hayward's SF data, here:
http://www.hayward-pool.com/pdf/lite...TSUPIIFR11.pdf

So all I'm really sure of, is that the data is not trustworthy. I don't know if it's been deliberately fudged, or whether someone's just been careless.

If you call Hayward again, ask them for the SF and amp draw numbers for your EE model pump, and for the corresponding Up-rate pump. If Inyo has misled you, you are entirely within your rights to ask for a fully paid return, based on the false data they supplied.

[versstef1]

FYI, I believe you in that they are identical. Inyo is wrong on the amp draw, I believe. Hayward stated that the amp draw on these 2 pumps is identical. But, and this is what's weird, that nevertheless the EE is more efficient for other reasons that they could not very clearly explain. Same amp draw, different efficiency - is that even theoretically possible?

[PoolDoc]

Hayward stated that the amp draw on these 2 pumps is identical. But, and this is what's weird, that nevertheless the EE is more efficient for other reasons that they could not very clearly explain. Same amp draw, different efficiency - is that even theoretically possible?

No, not possible.

I suspect that Hayward may be changing the product stream, and putting more efficient motors on the full rate pumps. But, how far along they are with this, I don't know. It may be plans; it may be happening; it may be wishful thinking. But, it's gone far enough to get into the level 1 tech scripts -- which is what you are hearing.

[Watermom]

Hope it works out for you with your equipment. Sometimes it is hard to know what is what. They certainly confuse me! See ya around the forum!