Super II Pump Replacment Decision

[versstef1]

I'm a relative newbie who's been able to keep the water nice and clean. But I have a "serious" equipment decision to make at this time and would appreciate any input. This last winter, a pipe came lose lose on top of my Hayward Super II Pump. I ran it at night because it was freezing that night (Orlando FL). When I woke up the pool was empty to the skimmer. I don't do my own plumbing, so I called a pool guy. Fixed. There were some other minor leaks that I wanted to fixed while we were at it, so he came back and replaced some parts, O-rings and stuff, all good, no extra labor cost. Just a minor leak remained. He said it was the pump gaskets/seals. I decided not to do anything because it was a very minor leak. A couple months later, I couldn't open the pump skimmer lid. It was like bolted down, and I had never had this problem before. Asked my pool guy who came back and opened it, again for free. Problem is, after he was done with that, there was now MAJOR leaking around the pump. He said it was those gaskets/seals, even though it was much stronger now. So, reluctantly, I said OK, replace all the seals/gaskets. NO IMPROVEMENT in leakage. He says it's most likely that I have a leak in the pump housing, which he just couldn't have known because 99% of the time, you replace the shaft seal, it's fixed. Of course my instinct is, he broke that when opening the lid. But I'm not pissed at him, it may not be his fault per se, just that maybe it happened when he put the pliers.

Anyway, so the decision I'm asking about is, replace the housing or replace the entire pump? It seems like the pump is 11 years old, the motor is from 2010. The housing costs about $200, the pump depending on where I buy it is about $400 (eBay - side question, is eBay OK for this??) to $450. My pool guy would let me buy my own either housing or pump and put it in for "free", as long as pay him for the seal/gasket replacement labor. I'm leaning toward getting the entire pump replaced and then keeping the old one for parts, in particular I would have a brand-new seal kit and a relatively new motor, which I could keep in reserve and then just put in when this motor goes. It might take 5 years or more to realize the savings, but in the end, it would be a much better deal than just getting the housing now, wouldn't it? And what if the new housing didn't fix it, then what? Might as well get the whole thing - parts on their own seem way more than the whole. I would appreciate any thoughts. Thank you!!!

[PoolDoc]

I'd replace the whole pump . . . and go to a 2-speed! Check on what rebate you can get from your power utility -- it may be substantial.

Take a look at this page: http://www.a1poolparts.com/-strse-Pu...Categories.bok for pricing. Allow $50 or more for shipping. A1PoolParts has *seemed* reliable; I've used them myself a couple of times, and they do have a physical location and a real store, so they are not like a lot of the Internet sites that are just an office, with 10 pool guys who can order for them.

You'll have to add either a timer or a toggle switch:
Intermatic T10604R Pool/Spa Control Center T106M and T104M @ Amazon
Southwire 55189301 3/4-Inch 6-Feet ULTRA Whip-Pre-Assembled with Wires and Connectors @ Amazon
Leviton 1282 15 Amp, 120/277 Volt, Toggle Double Throw @ Amazon

But, you should get payback -- even without a rebate -- in a year or two, and you'll get a MUCH quieter pump, as well as BETTER filtration. (All filters work better with slow flow for more hours, rather than high flow for fewer hours.)

[versstef1]

Thanks. The thing w/ 2-speed is that I have a solar heating system with panels on the 2nd story roof, so I wasn't going to attempt trying to figure that out at this time. My current pump is SP3010X15AZ (or at least that's what I figure the replacement needs to be - my label is totally worn out). All I really have is the label on the motor, which is 1.5 HP, SF 1.

[PoolDoc]

Hm-mh.

Need pictures and drawings, sent to poolforum@gmail.com.

Does your solar system have a vacuum relief valve? If not, you can use a timer to start on high, get the air out, and then switch to low. But, you'll need to do that 2x per day, to avoid air locking the solar system.

[versstef1]

Thanks for the advice, but I don't think I'm ready to do this major upgrade. I'm very conservative. Also, I wanted to be able to keep the current motor and put it back on when the new one goes. What I would maybe like to do is get the EE version of the Super II for now. But I'm confused. What I have now is SP3010X15AZ. This is 1.5 HP, 1.0 SF. The EE line has a SP3010EEAZ model, which has 1.0 HP but 1.5 SF. Their higher rated is SP3010X15AZ, which has 1.5 HP, but 1.35 SF. There is a chart here. http://www.inyopools.com/Products/02201169001153.htm. Will the 1HP, 1.5 SF be 100% equivalent to what I have now? I've tried to understand the HP/SF connection, but (seeing that I'm conservative bordering on the scared), I am just looking for confirmation that SP3010EEAZ is the exact replacement for me and that I can use my current motor back on it when the time comes. Does this make any sense?

[PoolDoc]

Here's the crossover data from Hayward:

( http://www.hayward-pool.com/prd/In-G...1_14002__I.htm )

[versstef1]

OK, thanks again. So it looks like they are interchangeable, yes??? I even called Hayward, they said so, too. BUT: they also said the amp draw on BOTH is IDENTICAL on SP3010X15AZ and SP3010EEAZ. How can one be more energy efficient if they draw the same amps? On the Inyo chart, this looks different, with a lower amp on the EE pump. To make me even more confused, the manual has a KW number that is 1.1 for the regular and .75 for the EE. And it states to make sure one has the correct wire for the KW number. So is this a problem when installing? I actually ordered the EE already, but now I'm STILL not sure if it was the right move? Thanks....

[PoolDoc]

I actually ordered the EE already, but now I'm STILL not sure if it was the right move?

The time to decide whether you're going to jump in, is before you're in the air. Once you're in the air, it's better to concentrate on not going SPLAT!

What you've run into is the old 'up rate' vs 'full rate' label game pool pump manufacturers have been playing for years. The *ONLY* difference between an SP3010EECZ and a SP3010X15AX is the label -- there is NO other difference: same parts; same motor (except the label); same efficiency; same wiring.

Stefan, you have ALREADY made your choice. I don't see a lot of value in discussing whether it was the best possible choice, especially when we are so far behind in trying to help people. If you change your mind, and send it back, let us know, and we can look at it again.

Maybe.

You already know it's not what I would recommend.

We absolutely believe in everyone's right to make their very own choices about their pool gear. If they want to buy SuperDuper All Eco Friendly DayGlo Pool Slime for $200 per ounce . . . we think that's absolutely their right (so long as it doesn't poison the neighbors ). But, we don't see a lot of point in discussing it with them -- it's not a product or an approach we support. We're not mad; we just need to focus on helping people who ARE listening to our advice.

Best wishes!

[versstef1]

Thank you. Wish you had told me that this is a game before. I was not able to discern that, and I've looked around. I don't understand how they get to call it energy efficient if it all is the same. Anyway, I pulled the trigger so that's it for. I hope you can appreciate that I am not ready for multispeed upgrade, not everyone is. I just moved i here a year ago and have had my fair share of maintenance issues. I came here for help with a specific decision, and the answer was a whole other animal. All good though, appreciate your efforts in maintaining this forum in general. Maybe someone will get something from reading my dumb post .... Namely that there is a labeling game going on.

[PoolDoc]

Stefan,

There's no way I can tell you all I know about pool pumps, or all that's relevant to your situation. I don't have time, and you wouldn't listen to that much stuff if I did.

When you first posted, you basically asked, "Should I replace just the motor, or get a whole new pump?". I told you to get a pump, and suggested that you get a two speed. It appears you're getting a single speed version of your current pump, but I can't be sure about that -- you haven't provided enough info (like pictures!).

You asked nothing about energy efficiency or comparing one pump to another. You did say you wanted to keep the current motor as a back-up. If you had gotten the 2 speed version of your current pump, you could have done exactly that.

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You haven't asked, but let me give you a general rule about buying pool products from salespeople. Actually, it's about buying from salespeople generally. Here's the rule: "You can tell when a sales person is lying, by watching their mouth. If it's moving, they're lying!"

I used to think that was a joke. Then, I thought it only applied to a few sales people. Now that I'm nearly 60, I know better. There are exceptions, of course. But, that's the general rule.

Here's another general tip about pool business. Again, it applies to consumer goods generally. When a sales person . . . or advertisement says a product is

+ more efficient;
+ chemical-free;
+ more eco-friendly;
+ or has a 50 year warranty;

you are usually about to be deceived.

You can go through the pool industry, and separate the business into those who have "Eco-" in their names, and those who don't. The businesses in the first class are, taken as a whole, and exceptions noted, shysters. It's true outside the pool business, too.

And, finally, one more rule: when shyster businesses play shyster games, like "Buy the NEW All-natural chemical-free "Eco-treat" for your pool, and save $1,000's" [As far as I know, there is NO "Eco-treat" product, at least today ], the non-shyster businesses watch, and eventually begin 'shystering' too. If those bogus claims WORK and sell product, the non-shyster companies start calling THEIR products "all-natural" and "chemical-free" (or: "high tech", "new and improved", "all new", etc) too. They feel like if the shyster's get away with it, they'll take the business from the non-shyster companies.

So, leaving a few shyster businesses standing INEVITABLY means the non-shyster companies begin to use shyster tactics, too just to keep up.

Hayward used to be one of the more stand-up pool companies. But they had to compete with Pentair, who was gobbling up every equipment maker out there, and Zodiac International, S.A.S.U, run with typical French honesty and integrity. I have no idea which one of those companies started the up-rate / full rate game, but it predates me, and I've been in the pool business nearly 30 years. Any company that didn't play would get hurt. Given a choice, very, very few companies will chose to hurt themselves, instead of you.