Cloudy Water

[chrisandtim]

Thanks Janet. From your first answer it sounded like you had some other suggestions before going the DE route? You had also asked for pump & filter info:

Hayward 1.5 HP Hayward HP Power-Flo economy pump for above ground pools
Filter is a W. Cooper Industries Ranger Series Sand Filter Model RS1815 & the multiport valve model number is TM-12-L. (needs new pressure gauge)

From the paperwork I have the valve size on this model is 1 1/2", tank diameter is 18" & the turnover rate is 12,760 gallons per 8 hours. My pool has 11,000 gallons of water.

[PoolDoc]

+ The impeller thing is a long term fix . . . for later, not now.

+ Your pump is too big; your filter is too small. This is SNAFU for AG pool installations: it's not your fault, but it is (now) your problem.

+ Your cloudy water is (probably) algae; you've made the situation much worse by adding clarifier and floc, and then forcing it through the undersized filter with the oversized pump, breaking the floc particles (if they existed). Now the floc and clarifier are acting to KEEP the goo in the water, instead of helping you get it out. With these additions, you have moved from state SNAFU to state FUBAR. (This is why we usually don't recommend those products -- people do the "some is good; more must be better" thing, and end up where you are.)

+ Your water won't clear, unless you can filter. It appears that you can't filter, but we're not sure. That's why we suggested the DE test.

+ You have three options that we know of:
1. you can drain and refill -- of course, this can destroy in-ground liner pools, and is risky with above ground pools, unless you know what you are doing.
2. you can test your filter, and fix it if necessary -- that's what the DE will do initially. If your filter is OK, the DE will help filter the fine particles . . . but at the cost of a LOT of backwashing.
3. you can get a new, bigger cartridge or DE filter and clean up your pool rapidly, especially with a LARGE DE filter. Here's an option available on Amazon:

Hayward C12002 Star-Clear 120-Square-Foot 2-Inch FIP Pipe Pool Filter

You can probably clear the pool in less than a week with that -- even with the floc and goo -- but you'll need a valve to throttle back flow: pressure loss will be so low on that filter, that you'll overload up the pump if you don't. After that, your pool will be clearer than you've seen it before.


We really don't have anything else to offer you.

Sorry.

[chrisandtim]

That's fine - just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something else & posted the size of pump, etc. just to make sure it was an oversized pump/undersized filter problem.
I'll make sure CH is not high and assuming that it is not, I will start with the DE test & see where that leads.

[PoolDoc]

just to make sure it was an oversized pump/undersized filter problem.

We're sure your pump is too big and your filter is too small; but we're not 100% sure that is "THE" problem here: that's why we want you to check your filter!

[chrisandtim]

So, got a new pressure gauge, & just did the DE test. 3/4 cup of DE seemed to hold - pressure just increased by 2. Good, right?

1. Will this help filter out what needs to be filtered out?
2. I have bought a smaller pump - 1 HP pump w/2 speed - which the pool store guy said was more appropriate for my filter size. He said this was likely the problem. So, that is my long term solution. What do you think?

Is there something else I should be doing?

[PoolDoc]

just did the DE test. 3/4 cup of DE seemed to hold - pressure just increased by 2. Good, right?

Yes!

Will this help filter out what needs to be filtered out?

Yes, but at the cost of very frequent backwashes. Let the pressure increase 6 - 8 pounds before you backwash.

I have bought a smaller pump - 1 HP pump w/2 speed - which the pool store guy said was more appropriate for my filter size. He said this was likely the problem.

Excellent idea, in general. I don't recall what filter you have -- it really, really helps if you'll post your pool info in your signature, so we can just look up and review what YOUR pool is like. (Actually, I just added -- check and correct it, if you don't mind.)

However, the floc and clarifier in excess can be a problem. There's another possibility that I've just begun discussing with a number of the more technical people on the forum: that the sand filter not only FAILS to filter the algae, but that pushing the dead algae THRU the filter fractures the pieces to the point that they become unfilterable, not only with sand, but also with DE and cartridges. I'll try to update you on this, as we work on a reaching a conclusion and response.

[chrisandtim]

Thanks much. I can't see my signature when I am online here. When I go to settings & edit signature it looks okay, although I get an error message that signature is too long.

I may be imagining it but it looks a little clearer. It is still cloudy but I can see the bottom where I couldn't see it before. Looking forward to reading the results of the excess floc & clarifier. I did not use a lot (probably less than was recommended on the package) but yes, I used first a clarifier & then a floc so both are in there.

[PoolDoc]

We're running into a bunch of these problems this spring, and just filtering is taking forever.

I'm trying to work out a new solution, and will post more later. But, do this:

1. Add a full gallon of plain 6% bleach this evening.
2. Then, turn your pool OFF.
3. Tomorrow evening, test the water. If there is ANY sign of algae OR if the chlorine level is below 'dark yellow' (OTO) or 10 ppm (FAS-DPD) add another gallon. Do NOT turn the pump on.
4. Monday morning, take a look, and tell me what it looks like.

Meanwhile, let me know if you have a full manual vacuum system (head, pole, hose) and if you can 'vacuum to waste'.

[chrisandtim]

Sorry - just getting back here today - been busy.

So, I will do this tonight - with the only change being that I do not have 6% bleach on hand but have 12% liquid chlorine. Not sure I'll get an answer from you before I do this - but my guess is to add half a gallon of the 12%. If that's wrong, let me know.
Then I will turn off - and I assume leave off all day tomorrow.
Tomorrow evening I will test. You say to add more chlorine if it is below 10 ppm but not turn pump on.
(But I feel the pump should be on when I add the chlorine & then I will turn off? Please advise.) [ <= YES, pump on - PoolDoc; further response later ]
Will then let you know what it looks like on Wednesday.

======================================

Forgot to answer your last question - yes, I have a full manual vacuum system & I am able to vacuum to waste.

[PoolDoc]

Sounds good.

You may end up wanting some PAC (polyaluminum chloride) floc. Hopefully not, but unfortunately stocks seem to be running low. Here are the only products I've been able to ID as definitely PAC, if you want to order 'just in case', since shipping delays are likely:

GLB Pool & Spa Products 71408 1-Quart Drop n' Vac Pool Water Clarifier @ Amazon
Blue Wave Super Floc 4 x 1 qt. @ Amazon - 4 days to ship
Proteam Superfloc Clarifier (not available at Amazon)