Clorox Outdoors Now what??

[kerweb]

Fighting some murky/milky water. Anyway 3 1.41 gallon bottles of Clorox Outdoors was added. Rained last night and now have 1 inch foam balls covering 20% of pool and the rain actually beads up for about half a second. Clorox outdoors has more stuff in it then I can name. But from the website:
1. Cetyl betaine is used to thicken cleaning formulas and stabilize foam.
2. Sodium carbonate, also known as washing soda and soda ash, is an alkalinity builder, which is added to laundry detergents to improve cleaning efficiency. It also helps remove alcohol and grease stains from clothing.
3. Sodium hydroxide, also known as caustic soda or lye, is used as a pH adjuster in cleaning products. As an alkali, it is useful in cleaning products for removing soils that are fatty, oily or acidic.
4. Sodium silicate is often used as a corrosion inhibitor in detergents to protect metal components of washing machines. It also prevents soils from redepositing on fabrics during the wash cycle.
5. Sodium xylene sulfonate is generally used to stabilize other ingredients in a cleaning product to maximize effectiveness of the formula. It is also useful as a co-thickener (in combination with other ingredients) in cleaning products.
6. Propylene glycol butyl ether is used as a solvent and grease remover in glass and all-purpose cleaners, as well as in other household and industrial cleaning products.

No numbers available as it is raining but before I left for a day all good except TC/CC.
24' AG

Any help or ideas? Burn it out with "normal" bleach, partial water exchanges? Did I just kill(coat) my sand in the filter ith this stuff?

Thanks

[aylad]

Definitely don't use any more of it-go back to plain, unscented bleach at shock level. Your filter will eventually catch it all, and it should backwash out.

[kerweb]

Definitely don't use any more of it-go back to plain, unscented bleach at shock level. Your filter will eventually catch it all, and it should backwash out.

Trust me it wasn't on purpose. Kids grab it when I was gone. I said grab Clorox and that was what they grabbed. Although seeing water bead on water is pretty cool for that half second.

[CarlD]

You may try to skim the goop off the surface, but I'm not sure what else you can do. shocking with plain LC/bleach may do it. The chemists here may have a better plan.

[PoolDoc]

----------- not completed -- will finish later ---------------------

Hm-m-mh. That's why we try to emphasize "plain 6% household bleach"

#1 - Cetyl betaine
#2 - Sodium carbonate - "pH Plus" -- raises pH and alkalinity; not a problem.
#3 - Sodium hydroxide - raises pH; not a problem.
#4 - Sodium silicate Not very dangerous, but not necessarily leaving the pool, either. Wikipedia
#5 - Sodium xylene sulfonate Science Lab MSDS. Not very dangerous, used in shampoos, not sure how low it will persist in pool
#6 - Propylene Glycol n-Butyl Ether Not very dangerous, should evaporate in within a week. 2008 Dow Chemical safety page (archived)

[kerweb]

Hm-m-mh... That is what happens when 18 year old goes shopping w/ girl friend for you!

Oh well, it doesn't appear to be the end of the pool at least for now. Still got some foam forming and beading happening, turned outlet up to hit surface in effort to help make more foam and maybe get rid of it faster. Seems to have helped as it doesn't stay as long as before.

Thanks PoolDoc.

[waterbear]

----------- not completed -- will finish later ---------------------

Hm-m-mh. That's why we try to emphasize "plain 6% household bleach"

#1 - Cetyl betaine
This is an amphoteric surfactant (synthetic detergent) and one of the causes of the foaming. I will eventually break down. An enzyme product with hasten the breakdown.
#2 - Sodium carbonate - "pH Plus" -- raises pH and alkalinity; not a problem.
#3 - Sodium hydroxide - raises pH; not a problem.
#4 - Sodium silicate Not very dangerous, but not necessarily leaving the pool, either. Wikipedia
Also called "waterglass". Will tend to act as a flocculant and should eventually filter out. Not harmful.
#5 - Sodium xylene sulfonate Science Lab MSDS. Not very dangerous, used in shampoos, not sure how low it will persist in pool
This is an anionic surfactant (synthetic detergent) and hydrotrope (soap like substance) often used as a foaming agent and foam stabilizer. It will also eventually break down. Once again, an enzyme product can help.
#6 - Propylene Glycol n-Butyl Ether Not very dangerous, should evaporate in within a week. 2008 Dow Chemical safety page (archived)

hope this helps.

[chem geek]

In general, chlorine takes a very long time to get rid of most surfactants. Chlorine doesn't react with the long-chain saturated hydrocarbon and the nitrogen in the cetyl betaine is like an amide that doesn't react very quickly (it's a cationic or positively charged surfactant). Likewise the sulfur in the sulfonate is not reduced so does not react with chlorine (as Evan noted, it's an anionic or negatively charged surfactant). These surfactants will tend to form micelles in the water and form a single-molecule thick film at the surface. Mostly what happens is that circulation moves them to the filter where they generally adhere. The filter is where most water-insoluble material ends up. When I clean my filters each year, it's mostly full of the parts of suntan lotion that are not water soluble and that chlorine does not break down.

As Evan noted, an enzyme product can be used to break these substances down, especially if you have trouble filtering them out. Usually though, most people are able to just let circulation do its job. If some remains on the surface because your flow rate isn't high enough to pull it down into the skimmer, then you can use a scum ball to help remove it.

[PoolDoc]

Richard, Evan;

Do you know of particular enzyme products that have delivered fairly consistent positive results. Those products are intrinsically 'mystery soup', so the only way to pick one, is to try to find one with a track record. I can't do so, because I've never used them.

[waterbear]

Only one I have ever used is Natural Chemistry's products but from what I have been able to gather about them they are all very similar if not the same.