Thank you pool doc!! Your the best.....

[PoolDoc]

It took me a long time to go through this thread.

1. Remove the sand filter.
2. Run the pump ONLY on low speed.
3. Add chlorine ONLY in the evening. Brush the pool after adding chlorine.
4. Don't add ANY thing else UNLESS you need to add borax to raise the pH or acid to lower it: if the pH is between 7 and 8, leave it alone.
5. EITHER add DE to test your filter OR get a new Unicel.
6. Do NOT clean the filter unless you are seeing at least a 3# increase on low speed.
6. Report AM FC and CC AND filter pressure 1x per day; no other reports.

I really wish you'd get a new cartridge, if you can. Do the DE or a new Unicel -- MUST have Unicel name on packaging! I'm finding many, many cartridges are NOT what they are sold as.

Also, the next time you clean the cartridge, please photograph it -- outside, inside tube, caps.

Good luck!

[Lawrosa]

The cart is new Ben. I took a few pics lost some from technical error on the phone.

These pics survived and I can tell you that it is one season old. The original filter lasted 6 yrs. Inside there is a spoked wheel in the center to prevent collapsing.


If you specify I can take any pics you want next time I open the filter.









I took the sand filter offline in my series configuration and am only running the cart on low.

#4 I think you mixed up the borax and acid application.

#5 the DE for test purposes will not clog the cart?

Filter pressure is 5 1/2 psi. 5 psi is start psi clean

Mike NJ

[Lawrosa]

Last night

PM: FC = 18n
AM: FC= 15
AM: CC = 0
Filter pressure 5 1/2. ( Same as yesterday)

On low speed 24/7. Will only add bleach at night per your instructions.

Today steady rain.

Mike NJ

[Lawrosa]

Last night

PM: FC= 18 ( Brought up from 13 to shock level. Was sunny later in the day yesterday)
AM: FC 15 ( Losing the same overnight 3 ppm.)
CC = 0
Pressure: 6 psi ( went up 1/2 psi. Just a hair shy.)

Steady rain today again. Two weeks and 2 days into this cleaning process. About 36 gallons of bleach added so far for 6000 gal pool.

Note:

Trouble I have testing CC even though I am fast, is that the sample changes back to pink very quickly after turning clear. I cant get the 003 reagent in there fast enough to really test. I have to add a substantial amount of the #871 to get it clear. Then the #003 does nothing.

Mike NJ

[Lawrosa]

Same as yesterday morning.

FC 15
CC 0
psi hair shy of 6 psi so not rising after 24 hours.

( I dont think its a filter issue. Its either slow to kill or too small to filter)

Can see bottom of pool but cloudy still.

I don't think its the CYA thing with the ammonia. I will re read the cloudy pool section. There needs to be a different cause for my cloudy pool every year. perhaps I am lacking something. Possible because I have 0 hardness to the water and I need some calcium?

Ugggghhhhhh!!!!!!

[Watermom]

There needs to be a different cause for my cloudy pool every year. perhaps I am lacking something.

Possible because I have 0 hardness to the water and I need some calcium?

No, you do not need calcium.

[Lawrosa]

OK same.

FC 15
CC 0
6 psi filter pressure

Still cloudy hazy. I can see the bottom somewhat. Since nothing is changing I think I may raise the Cl level to 20. Vacuum and brush pool daily after shock in PM.

Ho Hum..... I will post pics in my next installment of getting nowhere...LOL

Mike NJ

[PoolDoc]

These pics survived and I can tell you that it is one season old. The original filter lasted 6 yrs. Inside there is a spoked wheel in the center to prevent collapsing.

A 1 year old cartridge isn't new. The fact that you kept the old one for 6 years is NOT evidence that it lasted 6 years. You can continue to use cartridges after they are no longer effective: they still fit in the filter chamber; they just don't filter well.

#5 the DE for test purposes will not clog the cart?

Not if you use DE powder. If you use one of the DE alternatives, it WILL clog the filter.

FC 15
CC 0
psi hair shy of 6 psi so not rising after 24 hours.

Are you still losing 3 ppm overnight?

I don't think its a filter issue. Its either slow to kill or too small to filter

Gray blue is dead; the last pictures show no evidence of live algae. "Too small to filter" *is* a filter issue. The only way I know of for you to get unfilterable particles is to add some specific chemicals in excess. But, you haven't mentioned using those.

I don't think its the CYA thing with the ammonia.

It almost certainly WAS the ammonia thing; it doesn't sound like it still IS the ammonia thing. There is not another common cause of the chlorine demand + high CC levels you experienced.

There needs to be a different cause for my cloudy pool every year.

No, you can have the same problem year after year.

Possible because I have 0 hardness to the water and I need some calcium?

Adding calcium NEVER clears up water.

FC 15
CC 0
6 psi filter pressure

Since nothing is changing I think I may raise the Cl level to 20.

Don't know any reason for you to do that, unless you are still losing chlorine overnight.

From the information you supplied, it appears you had

1. A slimy, algae infested pool, with
2. Zero stabilizer plus ammonia and/or urea as metabolic byproducts of the bacterial degradation of stabilizer;
3. and a poorly functioning filter that is unable to filter the dead algae.

The algae is gone; if you no longer have overnight chlorine loss, the ammonia is gone; but you STILL have a poorly functioning filter with lots of fine dead algae particles.

If you're enjoying messing around with a cloudy pool, that's up to you. But if not, either
+ get a new Unicel or Filbur cartridge and try those on LOW SPEED
OR
+ test your existing filter with DE powder.

I'm not sure you're grasping the fact that a single cartridge run with substantial over-pressure can damage the cartridge. You may have damaged your year-old cartridge the first week you had it. I may be wrong about the filter, but it is by far the most likely remaining culprit . . . and you need to test and see if it IS the problem.

[Lawrosa]

Ben,

I know this filter is good. I am diligent on inspection and cleaning. I am unemplyed so I cant afford to buy a new one just for the sake of it.

I also have a sand filter. There is no way two filters can be damaged or faulty.

I understand what you are saying so I went out and physically cleaned, inspected, DE test, etc........

Inside and various pics of filter.









Here you see some pleats are thin in areas. This is how the original hayward was. This is how they are designed. My hayward never broke, ripped, collapsed, etc...

This filter looks identical to the hatward, but says UNICEL.

Here are inside pleats.






Here is in and around the filter.










Cant see in the pic but when I sprayed the filter white residue came off. Kind of like the white haze that is in the water.




Here is the DE I have from the sand filter. Its powder. I through a cup in real fast and no white came out the return.






Here is what the pool looks like. You cant tell by the pics, but you need to look hard to see the bottom. Pool is overall hazy/cloudy.





Here is what the pool looked like last year when I was done clearing. After I had the staining issue if you remember, and I used the pink stuff per your instruction.








Here is hi pressure 15 psi clean filter and 5 psi low clean filter.

OK sorry I lost those two in the transfer




So what do you think now? Am I crazy????

FC after sunny day tonight was down to 11 today.

I put in 80 oz to raise to 16-17.

Vacuumed and brushed.


Also do I leave the DE in there or take the filter out and clean it?

Ben I think you were going to call me last year when i had this going on.

Oh and thank you.......

Mike NJ

[PoolDoc]

Hi Mike;

Sorry about the budget issue -- I understand all too well. 2011 was the first Christmas in five years, where I haven't had worry too much about having to declare bankruptcy in February or March.

I agree, it appears that your filters are OK. However it's an unforunate fact that I'd have to either examine them personally OR have macro-photographs of the filter media to be sure.

That said, if you can dump DE in, do so. Let it run till the filter pressure rises 5 lbs and then clean the filter.

I'm checking with Chem_Geek and others about another possible explanation of what's going on with your pool. If I'm right, it primarily affects AG pool owners with sand filters. Again, if I'm correct, the solution might be a bit different than what you've been doing. But FIRST, you have to hold chlorine levels overnight, without significant loss.

SECOND, I'd need to know if you have a vac pole, vac head, and vac hose?