Fun with a Mesquite tree

[BadDog]

This is my first post, so I'll include a full background leading up to my current quandary. Perhaps the added background my suggest options I have not considered...

Just over a year ago I bought a house out of Foreclosure. It's an old 1.13 acre "horse property" with, as they say "good bones", but a definite fixer-upper. Anyway, it has an old school pool built in the 70s, still in decent shape. It also has a pretty typical sand filter with 1hp pump. We replaced a worn slam out Kreepy Krawly with a Hayward, and most of the time everything seems to work very well. However, there is a very old, very gnarly, very cool Mesquite tree about 40' from the pool. And just my luck, it's right up wind of the pool most of the time, and we get some pretty good winds. And my wife loves the funky gnarly tree (honestly, I like it too), so the obvious solution is not on the option list. Our first spring here I had an awful time with that filter, and eventually realized I had to go into it about every 2 weeks (or less) and scoop the mesquite leaves off the top of the sand. They would collect in there and harden into clumps and the pressure would go through the roof, of course along with drop in flow. Back flush will not get those leaves out.

It has an old style skimmer in the concrete. It uses the fake bottom with hidden basket (things started working much better once I found THAT!) with no vac port and the weir (and mounts apparently) is long gone. So I've put in a Pentair Pool Mate. Most of the mess tends to sink and get picked up by the vacuum, so I also added a large/long Hayward in-line mesh leaf canister. This made the filter situation MUCH better, reducing manual clean out frequency down to about once a month or so at the worst of the "leaf season".

So now I'm getting close to the point where my pool pump house project is approaching the top of my to-do list. Apparently it's always been out in full sun, and that's very common here. But the PVC is in sad/brittle shape, plus it's quite an eye sore from the back of the property. My plan is too build a sort of open gazebo over the pump/filter mess, move it closer to the wall (still allowing access), and make room to store the vac and other accessories out of the sun while not in use. At the same time as the move and replump I would like to add a mesh sock type (or something) leaf trap pre-filter to finally end the mesquite problem. Imagine my surprise when I couldn't find a decent option readily available.

I can't be the first to deal with this type of issue, so what is the best solution?

[PoolDoc]

I had to go look at Wikipedia to see what the problem was -- there are not so many mesquite trees in Tennessee!

I gather that the leaves go THROUGH the plastic filters in the skimmer and in the pump basket? Probably you want to work out some arrangement so you can use a skimmer sock in your skimmer. I know some folks here on the forum swear by them (picture links to Amazon):

[BadDog]

Thanks for the suggestion.

Yes, the mesquite leaves go right through those plastic basket holes. And on the advice of a local pool guy, I have already tried the "ladies hose" version of the sock. For one thing, it seemed quite restrictive even when clean. But then the thing would plug up almost completely over night, requiring cleaning twice a day in the peak leaf season.

I think the main problem is that is just does not have enough surface area. So what I'm hoping to come up with is something like the large/long Hayward in line mesh sock. The hose inlet channels incoming water right down the middle. When it's clean, anything going in goes right to the toe of the sock. As it fills up, it fills from toe to inlet over some 16"-18" or so of mesh "sock". And even half full, there is more open surface area than there is with a clean skimmer sock as shown, plus holes are small enough to block 99% of the mesquite leaves, while still being far bigger than the sock, so flow remains good until it's about 80% full. That cycle usually takes at least 3 or 4 days as long as I keep the piles from collecting around the pool, and we don't have a big wind storm. It's basically perfect for my needs, but only works for the vacuum.

Given that the in-line vac filter/socks seem pretty common, I really thought for sure such a thing would already exist for the main line. Something finer than the plastic baskets (which only catch sticks and Oak leaves) to keep other debris out of the main particulate filter. It seems those filters are really only supposed to catch dirt and relatively small stuff. It (the main filter) sure doesn't seem to handle my problem well, and I can only imagine a DE or cartridge filter would have even more problems with it.

So if there is no commercial product at a decent price, I may try to make something. It has to be serviceable from within a hard line system (near the main filter), so the straight through doesn't really work well (no good way to unscrew and/or pull off the end). If I could find a good source for the mesh sock material, and a suitable sized tank/receiver, I was thinking about something like a "cyclone" style separator system like used for dust collectors (I have a hobby machine shop and decent equipped wood shop). But making it big enough for the water velocity to slow enough to allow any drop-out would be a problem, as would cleaning the main tank and getting at the Hayward style sock inside. May have to visit some local surplus and scrapper yards to see if I can get a serviceable modest sized commercial stainless pressure container with cam lock lid to service as the main tank. Probably have to settle for some sort of mechanical filter using a long mesh sock, depending on what donor parts I can find.

[PoolDoc]

I really don't have any other suggestions I can offer. I haven't seen your gear, so I have no idea what custom solutions might be possible.

I am curious why we haven't heard about this problem before. Do most folks in Arizona keep these trees away from their pools?

[BadDog]

Well,the general wisdom is, of course, to keep them away from the pools. But mesquite is a very popular ornamental tree most everywhere, so they are certainly quite commonly around pools. And for those with tiny tract homes, if not in your own yard, then you may have one next door that you can do nothing about. While searching I found a fellow desert dweller who complained of a large mesquite just past the wall next to his pool. But his focus was on the stuff going to the bottom and hot to get it out before clogging, which I've already dealt with to my satisfaction. As he noted, the only saving grace is that these do tend to sink quickly, as long as they are not dead and dry. Good for him since most of the dry dead leaves are on the ground opposite the fence, and wind won't carry too many to his pool. Not good for me with flat ground between.

On that note, I have done things to help minimize the problem before it gets in the pool. For instance, I noticed that any little ridge or obstruction causes the blasted dry leaves to congregate on the up-wind side. So I dug out a sort of shallow drain trench beside the deck so that the concrete lip went from 1/2" or so up to about 1.25". Becomes a bit more of a trip hazard, but it's only about 5" wide (hoe width), and no small kids or elderly, so tolerable. Of course that means that if there is any wind, I have to clean it out regularly or it just builds a ramp over the edge. Once a month we go through and blow out all the accumulated leaves (I can't believe there are any actually on the @$%# tree any more!) into a pile and remove. I also vacuum (yeah, I vacuum my back yard) to gather the little collections next to every semi-vertical edge where they collect. Hoses, expansion joints, planter edges, etc. So I take my shop vac and gather the piles periodically, oh joy...

[BigDave]

The Mesuite leaves don't backwash out? [edit] Sorry, you answered this in the original post[/edit]

[PoolDoc]

Dave -- you may be on to something. His pump may be (in a reversal of the normal patter) too small for his filter, OR his filter backwash line may be small or restricted.

With correct flow, those leaves SHOULD wash out, though he might have to backwash weekly, to keep them from clumping.

[BigDave]

This may be gross, but, if it takes extensive or very frequent backwash to remove the mesquite leaves, backwash into the pool through the filter sock that catches the mesquite leaves. Perhaps after a short backwash to waste for the initial rush of ickey then switch to the pool / sock. This may help if water is espcially valuable (in the desert). Maybe run the filter for a coupe extra turnovers after such an operation.

[PoolDoc]

Good idea, Dave!

You might could get a small 8' Intex pool ($45), like this:

backwash INTO it, let it settle, siphon the clear water back into the pool, and dump the leaf sludge onto your garden. You could even buy the pump ($30) and use it to put the water back into your pool after the gook settles.

(Just love how they show ALL THAT ROOM in a tiny 8' OUTSIDE DIAMETER pool! But, it holds 600+ gallons, which is more than enough for you.)

[BadDog]

For whatever reason, the leaves do not back flush out. I see maybe a few hundred in a full backwash, with thousands upon thousands staying inside. Since we put the sock in-line for the vac, I back-flush about once every 3 weeks outside the heavy leaf seasons (spring/fall), and probably 1.5 weeks during. I just go by the pressure as directed by the local pool equipment guy (not a cleaner). He seems to be ok, once I finally got one who didn't seem like a complete idiot (like the first 2).

As for size, he says it and the whole system are "adequate". To paraphrase, he said something like "It is sized a maybe bit on the shy side for a 25k diving pool, but it will do the job when running right. He was the first to show me how to manually service the filter, what too look for, and what to be careful of damaging (the laterals). His number 1 suggestion, obviously, was to "get over it and get rid of that tree". Still not on board yet, but I did have a tree guy climb up through it and "open it up". Now looks sorta like something you would see on the African Savannah, and LOTS less mess than the first spring.

The back was line is all exposed 2" PVC. There is a single "street bend" 90, and then 2 45s to get is relatively horizontal and low to the ground, followed by 2 10' sections end to end to get clear of the "pump area". From there I put a 25' 2" roll up on to get the water to a tree basin so that I get SOME use from all the wasted water. Tree (elm I think?) seems quite happy. Flow seems huge to me, and I had to construct a dispersion pad from block to keep from starting an open pit mine every time I back flush. I could back-flush 2k gallons and still not do much against the accumulation of those blasted little leaves. And I'm not kidding about the volume. Early on, in desperation before just accepting the manual clean out, I let it run a LONG time. Long after the water ran clear, dropping water level enough that the skimmer was sucking air, and still had about 2 gallons of leaf mush (almost like clay in parts) to remove by hand.