Cloudy Water After Alum

[PoolDoc]

I'm over $1,000 into this between MetalFree, Metal Remover, Alum and water.

Wow! That's one of the worst cases of being 'pool-stored' I've heard of. I'm sorry!

OK. There's no easy way out of this. The "baby blue" means alum, not algae. You might still have some algae in the cracks and crannies, but not in the water.

So. Do this:

1. Call around, and get a price to drain and refill your pool, and open your filter and remove the Fiber Clear and top 2" of sand. The filter work will probably need to be done regardless. (If you did the sand yourself, you can get the Fiber Clear out yourself, too.)

2. Tell me what "Metal Remover" is -- what company, and the EXACT brand name. If it's HEDP based, and you've added much . . . you'll probably need to drain.

3. For now, maintain an adequate chlorine level using bleach and OTO -- if the OTO turns dark yellow, you're good to go.

4. Was the sand you put in the filter labeled as "filter sand"?

5. I talked with customer support at Natural Chemistry. Their "Metal Free" is just citric acid, so if there's chlorine in the pool, there's no citric acid left, since chlorine rapidly destroys citric acid.

6. The next step depends on the cost of draining and refilling; how long you're willing to wait for a clear pool, and whether you've added a lot of HEDP. If you haven't added HEDP (if "Metal Remover" isn't HEPD), or have added only a little . . . you can eventually clear the water up. But, if you've added a major overdose of HEDP . . . you'll need to drain and refill.

7. The reason you have to have a professional drain and refill for you, is that the liner is stretched into place using a vacuum (like a super shop-vac), and then held in place by the water. If you take the water out, the liner will contract, but because it's old, will tear when you try to refill. Also, if there's water in the ground -- it can accumulate under the liner, and cause problems. If you are on hillside, this won't be an issue, but if you are on level ground, it will be. You're only about 100 miles south of me, and the ground is too wet here to allow safe draining of a liner pool in a low flat area.

Sorry for all the problems.

[At wits end]

Watermom, thank you!

Ben, thank you! And I'm sorry I've created this monster and then listened to the pool store! It got to the point where everything they said was against my better judgement, but I didn't know what else to do. Thank God I found The Pool Forum! You've helped me feel more hopeful, but know I still have a long road ahead of me.

OK, so i just got back from looking at the actual products I put in the pool. Also pulled the MSDS's on them.

1 - I talked to a pool contractor and they said they would not be responsible for draining and refilling the pool, but recommended it as well. They said if I drained it to 1" above the bottom step leaving at least a foot of water in the shallow end I should be OK. My pool is the "copenhagen" shape and is roughly 5 1/2 feet in the middle and 3 feet on each side - steps on both sides as well. It was put in July 2006. What are your thoughts on this? And do you think DE would be able to help filter what's left in the remaining one foot after I refill it? Worth a shot? Keep calling around?

2 - The "metal remover" I referred to is actually called Stain Remover, distributed by Leslie's Poolmart and it contains Ascorbic Acid - 99.1% and Inert Salts 0.9%.

4 - The Sand is #20 Silica Sand manufactured by Southern Filter Media, LLC. It too was purchased from Leslie's.

6 - I'm under the impression the HEPD was the telling factor on definitely drain the pool. I'm assuming Ascorbic Acid and HEPD are two totally different things and the AA may be easier to work with?????

I checked on DE at Leslie's while I was there. They have a 25lb bag for $25.99 (I didn't buy anything!) Manufacturer's Name is EaglePicher Filtration & Minerals, Inc., Chemical Name Diatomaceous Earth, Flux-Calcined, Trade Name Celatom. It's 100% DE and 35-50% Crystalline Silica.

Waiting to hear back from you before I do anything with the DE or the draining.

Thanks!

[PoolDoc]

You're right -- since the Metal Remover is ascorbic acid (vitamin C!), we don't have to worry about HEDP. (And, since you have chlorine, it's all gone, too.)

Your contractor knows your pool. Ask him again, and confirm that it's safe to drain as far as he said, and then do that -- NO FURTHER!

Since the mess is just alum, that will eventually filter out. Draining it partially should reduce the problem to a more manageable level. I'll call someone, and see if anything will speed that up.

Do go ahead and remove & replace the two 2" of your sand, which should also remove the Fiber Clear. And do remember you MUST keep your chlorine levels up during this entire process or you WILL have algae again!

[At wits end]

We emptied the pool to 6" in the shallow end this weekend which would leave around 2 1/2 feet in the deepest portion of the pool. Even at that level I really had to look for the main drain to find it......disturbing.

The pool is filling at the moment. Should be full around 7-9p.m. tonight.

I'll need to work on the water balance - chlorine, ph, alkalinity, cya, hardness, salt. Can you tell me where to begin at this point?

I did order and have received the K2006 kit.

We recalculated the pool and have come up with 14,000 gallons. It's 16 x 32 with steps on each end, 5 1/2 deep in the middle and 3 1/2 on each side. Would you agree with 14,000?

[PoolDoc]

I came up with 15K, but you may be compensating for actual pool layout better than I am.

Anyhow, do this:

1. Turn your pump & filter on ASAP.
2. Add 1/2 gallon of 6% plain bleach each evening, till you get on a program.
3. Do NOT try to adjust anything else, EXCEPT pH, but even then only if the pH is >8.0 or <7.0.
4. Do a complete set of tests on your pool water, once the pool is full.
5. Do NOT turn on the SWCG, yet.
6. List what chemicals you still have, on hand.

[At wits end]

15k sounds more realistic than the 18k we initially thought it was, thanks.

OK, this might be a stupid question, but can I turn the pump on and run it if the water is not up to the return lines yet? (Obviously I'd keep the skimmer off until the water level got up to it)

I thought maybe I should backwash the filter one more time with the "cleaner" water before i started filtering ???????

I'll follow-up with a better description of the below once I check it all:

- 18-20 lbs of cya
- 10-12lbs hardness from Leslie's
- 30 - 50 lbs Bi-carb
- Heading to Walmart for Bleach and Borax at lunch.
- 25lb bag of DE.

Thank you!

[PoolDoc]

OK, this might be a stupid question, but can I turn the pump on and run it if the water is not up to the return lines yet? (Obviously I'd keep the skimmer off until the water level got up to it)

I thought maybe I should backwash the filter one more time with the "cleaner" water before i started filtering ???????

If you can get the pump to prime, and stay primed, it's OK to run the system. On most pools this means you have to have a main drain, AND a valve that allows you to cut off the skimmer, so you can pull water from the main drain alone.

If you can get it primed, backwashing would be fine.

Don't add the hardness or bicarb till later (and maybe, not ever). Don't add the CYA till you have the system running and circulating.

[waterbear]

5. I talked with customer support at Natural Chemistry. Their "Metal Free" is just citric acid, so if there's chlorine in the pool, there's no citric acid left, since chlorine rapidly destroys citric acid.

Ben,
Unless the MSDS I have from natural Chemistry and the correspondence from them is wrong, Metal Free is basically EDTA (since they tout it as a 'phosphate free metal sequatrant). Their Stain Free product is ascorbic acid. I used to retail their products.
So much for their "customer support"!

[PoolDoc]

Ben,
Unless the MSDS I have from natural Chemistry and the correspondence from them is wrong, Metal Free is basically EDTA

I don't have Natural Chemistry MSDS sheets, for the most part; would you mind sending me copies of the ones you have, so I can add them to the SwimmingPoolResearch files?

Once I publish all that, we'll have better info on most of the pool chemicals, than the 'support staff' do!