Using the BBB method in Spa

[bucky4835]

I just want to thank the Moderators (and others) on this forum for all their helpful info on this site. I found this site while researching for info on an above ground pool. I figured if BBB can work in a pool, it should work in a spa. So I went to Walmart to get most of the chemicals and Lowe's for the others. I drained my spa then refilled. It took me about two weeks to stabilize the chemistry. I think I had some algae growing in the water lines. Since then, my water is the clearest, cleanest, and smells the best that it has ever been for the last six years. I have never enjoyed it this much. I get out feeling relaxed and my skin feels so much better. I was spending about $100 plus every 2-3 months on Brilliance for Spa's chemicals which ended up ruining valves, whirl jets, all four pillows, and air diverters before I came across this site. I used Baqua Spa before then. For the last month, I have only went through 1/2 gal bleach, 4 oz of muratic acid, and very little Borax and Baking Soda. I owe you guys big time. I am still looking at getting a pool around spring time. When I can swing it, I will be joining this forum as a lifetime member. Thank you guys again.

Jim

[PoolDoc]

As much as I'd be grateful for another Lifetime Membership, if your primary concern is with a spa, I'm not sure I'd recommend that you purchase one. Neither I, nor most of the moderators, have a lot of spa experience . . . and spa chemistry is rather different.

So while the general BBB approach can work for spas, the details are something you may have to work out yourself. I'm glad that you seem to be succeeding with that now, but I don't want to 'oversell' you on what the PoolForum can offer.

[chem geek]

Jim,

I hope you initially added some Cyanuric Acid (CYA) to the water after your fresh fill -- either as pure CYA or initially using Dichlor for a week or so to get the CYA up to around 30 ppm or thereabouts. Without any CYA in the water, using bleach will be too harsh and won't last very long. The CYA helps moderate chlorine's strength. You want some, but not too much -- similar to what you do for pools but you don't need as much since the spa is likely covered.

I also presume you kept the TA very low, perhaps at around 50 ppm, in order to prevent the pH from rising. Adding 50 ppm Borates (such as from ProTeam Gentle Spa or from boric acid or from adding both 20 Mule Team Borax and Muriatic Acid) also helps to reduce the rate of pH rise.

As for handling spa questions, waterbear and I can handle that, though you could go to Pool and Spa Forum which is more oriented towards spas and where waterbear is a moderator. Either way, we'll help you out if you need any assistance.

Richard

[bucky4835]

As much as I'd be grateful for another Lifetime Membership, if your primary concern is with a spa, I'm not sure I'd recommend that you purchase one. Neither I, nor most of the moderators, have a lot of spa experience . . . and spa chemistry is rather different.

So while the general BBB approach can work for spas, the details are something you may have to work out yourself. I'm glad that you seem to be succeeding with that now, but I don't want to 'oversell' you on what the PoolForum can offer.

PoolDoc, I understand that totally. I have been looking at this site for a couple of months now learning about above ground pools as we are going to be getting one in the spring so I have been doing a lot of research. This site has been very helpful in that regard. By the info here, I decided to try the BBB method in my spa. It has worked out awesome. By the time I get the pool up and running, I am hoping to have good experience with this in my spa so I can have a good experience with the pool chemistry as well. I am sure by that time, I will be on here asking plenty of questions for help. Lol!

Jim,

I hope you initially added some Cyanuric Acid (CYA) to the water after your fresh fill -- either as pure CYA or initially using Dichlor for a week or so to get the CYA up to around 30 ppm or thereabouts. Without any CYA in the water, using bleach will be too harsh and won't last very long. The CYA helps moderate chlorine's strength. You want some, but not too much -- similar to what you do for pools but you don't need as much since the spa is likely covered.

I also presume you kept the TA very low, perhaps at around 50 ppm, in order to prevent the pH from rising. Adding 50 ppm Borates (such as from ProTeam Gentle Spa or from boric acid or from adding both 20 Mule Team Borax and Muriatic Acid) also helps to reduce the rate of pH rise.

As for handling spa questions, waterbear and I can handle that, though you could go to Pool and Spa Forum which is more oriented towards spas and where waterbear is a moderator. Either way, we'll help you out if you need any assistance.

Richard

Thank you for your response. I did add CYA right after I refilled the spa. I the only issue is I added a bit more than 30 ppm. I am at 45 ppm. I do keep the TA at the low end. It is at 70 right now but I have been lowering gradually. Im trying to get a feel for where the parameters need to be to stop the ph bounce. So far, as far as adding the bleach, I have been adding close to 9 oz every week. That is using the spa 3-4 times a week with both my kids, and keeping the temp between 100-101 degrees F. Also, the capacity of the spa is 450 gal. Any help or comments is greatly appreciated. Thank you.


Jim

[chem geek]

Thank you for your response. I did add CYA right after I refilled the spa. I the only issue is I added a bit more than 30 ppm. I am at 45 ppm. I do keep the TA at the low end. It is at 70 right now but I have been lowering gradually. Im trying to get a feel for where the parameters need to be to stop the ph bounce. So far, as far as adding the bleach, I have been adding close to 9 oz every week. That is using the spa 3-4 times a week with both my kids, and keeping the temp between 100-101 degrees F. Also, the capacity of the spa is 450 gal. Any help or comments is greatly appreciated. Thank you.

45 ppm CYA is OK. I usually recommend around 30 ppm (initially I recommended around 20 ppm), but you're probably fine up to at least 50 ppm. We started to see possible hot tub itch incidents with longer Dichlor use, but it was hard to determine whether that was at 100 ppm or some other specific level so I've been conservative to just recommend relatively low CYA amounts.

9 ounces of 6% bleach in 450 gallons would be 9.6 ppm FC. If you are using the spa 3.5 times with 3 people for 30 minutes, then that is 5-1/4 person-hours and would normally require 26 ppm FC to oxidize the bather waste. Since you are using substantially less and apparently maintaining a chlorine reading, do you have an ozonator? That would explain why you aren't using as much chlorine with frequent usage. Usually it would cut down required chlorine amounts by about half while in your case it seems to be cutting it down to 1/3rd.

[bucky4835]

45 ppm CYA is OK. I usually recommend around 30 ppm (initially I recommended around 20 ppm), but you're probably fine up to at least 50 ppm. We started to see possible hot tub itch incidents with longer Dichlor use, but it was hard to determine whether that was at 100 ppm or some other specific level so I've been conservative to just recommend relatively low CYA amounts.

9 ounces of 6% bleach in 450 gallons would be 9.6 ppm FC. If you are using the spa 3.5 times with 3 people for 30 minutes, then that is 5-1/4 person-hours and would normally require 26 ppm FC to oxidize the bather waste. Since you are using substantially less and apparently maintaining a chlorine reading, do you have an ozonator? That would explain why you aren't using as much chlorine with frequent usage. Usually it would cut down required chlorine amounts by about half while in your case it seems to be cutting it down to 1/3rd.

Thanks for the reply chem geek. I think the way I wrote the above was a bit misleading now that I read it again after your response. I use it 3 times a week and sometimes 4. My boys do use it with me but not all the time. If my 5 year old gets in with me, he is only in for about 15 minutes while I am in about 30 minutes. He does get in with me all the time. My 9 year old gets in but not often. I am not 100% sure about the ozonator. I am pretty sure that I do not. After reading your calculations, I believe I am putting more in. I will check it for a week by recording the amount each time and write it down. This way I am not forgetting if I add some and forget that I did. I will say though, I am able to go at least 2 days, sometimes 3 before I have to add any. I do really appreciate the help and I am slowly getting the hang of this. Anything else is greatly appreciated.

Jim

[chem geek]

Ultimately, you just test and add enough chlorine to make sure you have some measurable amount (at least 1-2 ppm) just before your next soak. The actual amounts and bather load are more for my edification for when people ask for a rough rule-of-thumb just to get an idea of what they might expect.

[bucky4835]

Ultimately, you just test and add enough chlorine to make sure you have some measurable amount (at least 1-2 ppm) just before your next soak. The actual amounts and bather load are more for my edification for when people ask for a rough rule-of-thumb just to get an idea of what they might expect.

Totally. Just for my info since I am new to this method, I am still going to keep track and then I will report back. Again, I am glad you guys are willing to help out even though its for a spa. Using this method has got me ecstatic again about using my spa. I had stopped using it for a long time just because I was tired of the chemicals and them making the water unenjoyable. I can't wait to get our pool and get it setup for next season.

Jim

[bucky4835]

Well, i was off a bit. I ended up using 15 oz of bleach last week and on track for the same amount or a bit more for this week. All in all, I am using a ton less chemicals as I did before and spending a lot less for them. The water is clear and I am not getting the nasty smell from it like with Baqua Spa and Brilliance for Spas. I definitely recommend this for other people who are considering this method for their spa. When we get our pool setup, I am sure I will like it just as much as I do know.

Jim

[PoolDoc]

Well, I'm glad it's working out for you!