Acid and Base Demand tests: Useful or Not?

[waterbear]

Ben,

I am not disagreeing with you. In fact, I agree with almost everything you wrote!

My first "response" post dealt with two issues:
1. getting the proper info to the OP about his test kit since I feel that as the 'experts' we owe that to the new members. I have seen you on many occasions ask people (including me!) to spell check before posting. IMHO, that should be extended to take a few seconds to look up some info before answering a post if you are not sure of the specifics. Being able to back up a post with facts that can be referenced only adds to the credibility of the forum.

This is what lead to the second issue, the statement that acid and base demand tests are useless. You and I do agree that, under certain situations, they can and are useful. Nowhere did I recommend them for trivial pH adjustments. I recommended them for those unusual situations where they can make solving a specific problem easier.

I think your idea of a special page on A/B testing is an excellent idea! Once again, I never said it was a test that is going to be used on a regular basis and I quite agree that getting good daily testing habits is of prime importance (just look up any of the posts I have made answering how often should a pool be tested!)

Because it's awfully easy to screw up:

"OK. I got pool water in the plastic color thingie. Check.
I put the pH bottle stuff in the side that says pH. Check.
Darn. It's a weird color.
Oh yeah. I can ADD hat A/B stuff to make it change color and then count the drops.
Ok. I add some B stuff.
Darn! No change.
2 more drops. Still no change. I'll try the other kind.
I'll add some A stuff. OK. It changed.
No, it changed back. Darn.
I'll add some more. Ok. It quit changing.
Darn! It changed back again.
Ok. It quit again. Add another drop or so.
Yeah, it stayed quit. 8 drops of A stuff or maybe 10.
Now what.
Oh, yeah. Where's that darn book.
Chart, chart, chart . . . A/B chart. There it is.
Ok, 8 drops that will be 1.28# for 5,000 gallons.
How much is my pool? Oh yea, 6,000. Ok that one.
Soda ash. What is soda ash? Wait, I don't want to increase my pH.
Darn! Wrong chart.
OK. 2.29 gallons of muriatic acid.
Sheesh. I have to use that stuff?
Wait, another chart. Dry acid. Ok
3.06# of dry acid. Ok.
I got a 5# container. That should be close enough.
Ok. Dump it in.
Crap. It's all on the bottom. Will hit hurt something.
Darn. There are bubbles coming from the plaster. That's not good.
Ok. Brush it around.
Ok. All gone; all good.
Darn. It's nearly dark. Sorry kids, no swimming tonight.
(Next morning)
Crap. What the ### is this? NOW, the fleeping pH is LOW.
Screw that stupid PF place. Off to the pool store."

As far as newbies screwing things up (if it can go wrong it will!) you are preaching to the choir! Some of the more memorable was the person who was holding the spoon part of the DPD scoop as a handle and using the handle as a scoop (all it did was waste DPD powder) and the person who was testing chlorine but the color never went "clear", it stayed a bit cloudy even though all the pink had disappeared! (Since that one I never say the color change is from red to clear but from red to colorless!)

I also used to work help desk many eons ago when I was in the software/hardware industry. (To give you an idea of how long ago we made hardware for Apple ][ and Einstein computers and software for Apple ][ and Apple CP/M and were a VAR for the ATT Unix System V PC. If you know what I am talking about then you have been using computers for over 30 years!) I think one of my most common answers (when there was nothing on the monitor) was to check if it was turned on. Most of the time it was not!
And, if you think that won't happen -- pretty much exactly -- you need to answer a few more questions from Intex newbies.
ROFL, I know you did not forget that I was a MOD at TFP for a very long time and am currently a MOD at PoolSpaForum! I spend most of my time answering newbie questions. Aldo, I used to sell Intex donuts and dealt with the new pool owners face to face! Like I said, if it can go wrong it will!
But, it can be worse. If you go the other way, and add a slugged A/B dose of SODA ASH, in a pool that has moderate CA and CH . . . you've got a much better than 50:50 chance of precipitaing a calcium carbonate cloud, which is slow to clear up.
Which is why I said substitute the Borax for the soda ash by using twice as much by weight. There needs to be CLEAR instructions for proper use of these tests, just as there are clear instructions for lowering TA (and even those are often misunderstood. I once had a long debate with someone who sells a test kit and runs a forum who was convinced that it was aeration that lowered TA even though I was trying to explain that adding acid lowers TA and aerating just brings the pH back up without bringing the TA up again also and that if you were patient enough you did not even have to aerate, the pH would rise on it's own over time but it fell on deaf ears--and this was by no means a newbie!)
So, I guess the question is, do you want to submit a A/B testing guide we can edit and post?

(And I will credit you.)

I would be glad to write something up. Should I email it to you or just post it? I probably won't have the time until next weekend, however. I am not looking for credit. No reason to add the quote bracket! If you want to give me credit fine but that is not my motive!