noob with cloudy water

[swimmerfred]

ok, working on it. been keeping it => 15ppm. Does it matter whether I use the powdered shock or liquid bleach - or more directly - is one more succeptible to burn off from the sun? I'm told that during the day it may burn off, but also that I am not supposed to use my solar cover because the elevated levels of chlorine could ruin it. Is the buffered shock more likely to keep FC levels elevated during the day? or doesn't it matter. Many thanks by the way.

[Watermom]

I'd use the liquid bleach. It won't contribute to clouding the water. High chlorine levels can damage a solar cover so you are correct in not keeping the pool covered while you are shocking.

[BigDave]

In the water, given a fixed CYA, one form of chlorine is no more or less susceptible to the sun than another. They all are.
Some powdered chlorine (dichlor) contains stabilizer and will increase your CYA level (increasing your sun protection and your required FC level for shock and normal operation). Dichlor will also lower your pH.
You reported a pH of 7.1 on 8/29; this is near the bottom of the scale, my K-2006 pH scale only goes to 7.0 in 0.2 increments, was the color between 7.0 and 7.2? If your pH is still that low (or lower if you're using dichlor), I'd recommend that you add some Borax to bring it up to the 7.4-7.6 range. Start with a couple cups, give it time to dissolve and circulate and test again. Add more if needed.
Are you still using trichlor? Trichlor will also drop your pH.
The other widely available powdered chlorine source is Calcium Hypochlorite which is just like bleach (and liquid chlorine - same thing as bleach) when it comes to the sun.

[swimmerfred]

Ok, I've had FC at or above 15ppm for five days now. It's still pretty green. Is it common for it to take this long? thx a bunch!

[PoolDoc]

Hi Fred:

Please do 4 things:

#1 - Retest with the K2006, and report a full set of results.
#2 - Clean your filter again, and see if there's still any "green stuff" on it or running off.
#3 - If there is any green stuff, catch some in a glass container, and add a teaspoon of bleach. Let us know how that affects the color.
#4 - Let us know EXACTLY what each chemical is, that you've used since first posting, and also if you have any 'devices' on the pool that are supposed to help with the chemistry.

[swimmerfred]

Ok, hope this helps:

#1 - FC=16.5, pH=7.6, CYA=50, TA=180, Ca=220ish (that one is hard to tell when exactly "blue" is)
#2 - Yep, there's lots of green stuff. I've been cleaning the filter about once a day. Basically, the pool is pea soup - cloudy and green.
#3 - I'm not sure that there is actually green solids or floaties. there is a littl green scum on ladder, inlets. should I try to get some of that? or test with just green pool water?
#4 - I go from skimmer to pump to cart filter to solar heater to tri chlor doser to inlet. I did turn the doser up a bit to help with Chlorine, I'm guessing that's where the slightly elevated CYA came from? At first I used the super shock that Wal-Mart sells, but then I got lazy and started using gallons of bleach. It takes roughly 3 gallons/day to keep it above 15ppm. I haven't added any anti-algae stuff in a few weeks. I've scrubbed the walls daily, letting the robot go at it on the bottom. Almost seems like I'm stirring it up and unsuccessfully filtering it. I'll take a FC reading tonight at dark and tomorrow morning. I'm guessing I lost 3 or so ppm of FC last night.

[PoolDoc]

Ok, hope this helps:

#1 - FC=16.5, pH=7.6, CYA=50, TA=180, Ca=220ish
#2 - Basically, the pool is pea soup - cloudy and green.

Ok.

That's enough information. Cloudy green pea soup is algae, not copper.

I've seen algae that was very, very chlorine resistant, a few times. High-ish pH and TA can make it easier for algae to grow.

So, do this:

+ Get some pH minus or muriatic acid, and lower your pH to near 7.0. To be sure of your pH reading, you'll need to get some distilled -- not just bottled, distilled, available in most groceries -- water and dilute your pool water 50:50 with it, BEFORE testing pH. High chlorine affects phenol red, but distilled water will dilute it and does not affect pH much. (Thanks, Chem_Geek!) Do not add acid doses more than 1x per 4 hours. DO run your filter 24/7, if you are not already doing so.

+ Once your pH is near (not below) 7.0, add FIVE gallons of plain 6% bleach in the evening. Be SURE your pump is running when you do. Do not try to test the pH till the chlorine goes below 18 ppm.

+ If you don't get a kill, wait till you can test pH again. You'll probably need to add more acid. Once you get the pH below 7.2, redose with chlorine. Do NOT let the chlorine get below 10 ppm.

+ If you STILL don't get a kill, add EIGHT gallons of chlorine in the PM.

Let us know how it goes. Limit yourself to 3 chemicals: bleach; acid and borax, if you go too low on the chlorine. Do not use anything else. Do run the pump & filter 24/7.

Ben

[swimmerfred]

Ok, did as instructed. Got pH down slightly, then added 5.4 gallons of bleach. Didn't test FC until next morning, but read 26.5ppm. That afternoon it was 21.5ppm. The next morning (this morning) it's 13ppm. Tested pH this morning and got 7.4. Pumps been running non stop for a couple weeks now. Not going to lie, starting to get discouraged. Still the exact same pea soup. How will I know when it's working? Will it simply consume less FC or will I see a visible change initially? Off to WalMart for more bleach? again, thanks very much.

[PoolDoc]

Again, more information is present in your post: "pea soup" is more than just cloudy green water; it's opaque green water, as in "my fingers disappear before they are a foot down". If you've got pea soup . . . you've got a long tough road ahead of you. That much algae creates an ENORMOUS chlorine demand. Cleaning it up can take as much chlorine as you'd otherwise use in an entire summer!

There are plenty of shortcuts . . . just none that work well!

So do this: (explanations below)

#1 - Hold the chlorine in the 10 - 15 ppm range, and add acid every 4 hours till you get the pH to near 7.0. (note 1 below)

#2 - If you like, add 1/2 dose ONLY of a sodium bromide based product. See note #2 below.

#3 - Once you reach pH 7.0, add sufficient bleach to take your chlorine level to 30+ ppm, and hold it there for 48 hours. While it is that high, BRUSH your pool thoroughly, whether you can see the bottom or not. If you have algae layers on the bottom, you'll need to add MORE bleach after every brushing, to maintain your chlorine level. See note #3 below.

#4 - Let us know how it goes.


Note #1: Once you do, it will began increasing again on it's own because of the high alkalinity level. (You can read here: if you want to understand what's happening.)

Note #2: There are no GOOD shortcuts for cleaning up a swamp. But there is one short cut that may help somewhat, without too high a price later. There are pool products that contain sodium bromide and are sold for situations like yours. "Yellow Treat" is one such product. They work, because chlorine oxidizes bromide to bromine, and bromine is NOT affected by stabilizer. While your algae is present, this is good, because the cloudiness protects the bromine from sunlight, and the UN-stabilized bromine can be more effective against algae than stabilized chlorine. So, using these products *may* give you a somewhat faster (not fast, just somewhat faster!) cleanup.

But, there still is a price!

Once your pool is clear again, the sunlight WILL break down the bromine, into bromide, which will then be converted back to bromine . . . using up chlorine in the process. The result will be a HIGHER chlorine usage with clear water than you would have had otherwise. Eventually, the bromide will be converted to bromate, which is not easily converted to bromine, and this chlorine loss will stop. But unless you drain your pool, it will probably be sometime into NEXT pool season before it does.

Note #3: It's not common, but I've encountered algae that did not start dying until chlorine levels reached 40+ ppm . . . and that pool had less than 40 ppm CYA. This sort of algae is not common, but it does occur. If you have a plaster pool, it would probably be best just to take your chlorine up to 50+ ppm. But, unless your CYA level is higher than you reported, I can't recommend that on a vinyl or fiberglass pool. There is just too much risk of bleaching out the color on either liners or fiberglass.

[swimmerfred]

Ok, began doing as instructed. In the meantime; My LPS guy noticed that my pressure was a bit high on my filter gauge. I re-plumbed with a by-pass for the solar heater. I did not realize how much flow my solar heater was restricting. It has to be moving water 5x as much as before. Thing looks like a hot tub jet shooting out now. Could it be possible that all along I just wasn't getting enough flow through the filter? At this point, I just want to get it cleaned up for winter. Currently in the process of lowering pH and scrubbing. Still green, but i noticed that algae doesn't settle on fittings, ladder, etc like it used to.