Poor Pool Suction

[captnapi]

Hello and thank you in advance for help and suggestions.

I have a 20 year old in-ground concrete pool 16x32 about 23 thousand gallons, Hayward 1.5hp pump, Hayward, S244T sand filter, Hayward CL220 Chlorinator.

I had a poor suction problem and troubleshot the problem to old worn pump seals. Because the unit was so old and the parts were unavailable I decided to change the pump and filter with the same sand filter combo but all Hayward.

After the upgrade I regained the steady 22lbs of pressure, solid flow through the pump with no air bubbles I once had, but I still have poor suction. My Barracuda pool robot can't work because of the poor suction. I also noticed that the water return jets inside the pool are very week too. When I backwash or rinse the suction increases and appears perfect as the barracuda races around the pool.

Any suggestions would absolutely be a God send I this problem has me at my witts end, Thx...

[PoolDoc]

Just one suggestion: ditch the CL220. They say a picture is worth 1000 words. Here's one that probably explains why you have high pressure, but low flow:

Hayward CL220 flow path
This unit is a great example of a product that has been successfully marketed for years, in spite of being an outstanding example of "broken by the engineers" design. When you backwash or rinse, you are almost certainly bypassing the CL220. It's possible that you have ANOTHER obstruction in your return piping, besides the CL220 . . . but most likely the problem is just the Hayward unit.

[captnapi]

Hmmmm.. very interesting observation. Ben, thx for taking the time out to show me a picture, that's cool. Yeah, I definitely see what you're talking about. I'll conduct a test and insert a bypass pipe in it's place and see what happens. I totally understand your suggestion, but this problem progressively got worse over time with the CL220 already installed. This may be a compound problem? I got a feeling something may be stuck in the piping too. this is a good start. If afterward I still have a suction issue I red there's a device I can attach to my hose, a "water dog" I think it's called. Inserted into the pipe from the pump end it might help flush out any garbage back to the scuppers. What's your opinion on that little device?

I really got used to using a chlorinator. In your experience can I make the CL220's hole larger or can you suggest a chlorinator that's has close to the 1 1/2 inch piping I use?

[PoolDoc]

The Rainbow / Pentair 320 doesn't have the flow restriction problem with Hayward unit does, and usually, the flow control valve works much better.

You can NOT bore out the hole, because the pressure drop across the restriction is what 'drives' the unit.

Be careful about using any water pressure device to clear the lines. Most pool installers are NOT plumbers, and are accustomed to maximum pressures of 50 psi; typically even when working with S40 PVC pipe, which can hold 100+ psi, they do not use joining methods that are up-to-spec. As a result, trying to clear the lines like that can blow joints loose, or even shatter pipes - causing you to go from poor flow, to no flow.

[waste]

Captnapi, welcome to the Forum!

First of all, let's talk chlorinators. You say it's a CL220, the 220 is an off-line chlorinator, connected by 2 black hoses to the plumbing - the CL200 (that Ben posted a pic of) is an in-line chlorinator and if the quarter/ obstruction was as the pic showed, you'd lose suction and return action.

Please let me get this straight, you replaced the S244 and the sand?

If everything is fine on backwash or rinse, you are NOT filtering - this leads me to think that there is a problem with your sand or the return side. If you have directional eyeballs in the returns, please make sure that the inserts aren't turned sideways.

I think you'll find the obstruction is in the return side

[PoolDoc]

Argh-h-h.

Thanks, Waste, for catching that very serious error on my part. CaptNapi, I even have that photo labeled properly in the PF photo album, but obviously was having a senior moment.

An offline chlorinator, like the CL220, is not likely to be causing your flow problems. My apologies!

Ben

[captnapi]

I want to acknowledge everyone who contributed to my finding and fixing this pain in the behind problem. Thank you guys....
So after a tough battle in the courts and with the pool. After a long divorce I'm back the maintenance man to fix the pool so the Ex can enjoy the fruits of my labor.

To answer some questions first;
I started with an old sand filter and 1.0 hp pump and I had very high pressure at the filter, 22lbs.
The pump would suck air and my pool robot, a Barracuda would no longer work.

problem #1; The pump seals were shot. Since the sand filter and pump were over 20 years old I replaced them both. Air suction problem solved.
problem#2; I still have high pressure and the Barracuda that works on pool suction will not function. I replaced the CL220 wit a new Pentair because of that dam convincing picture. That looked to logical to ignore. The root of the problem was the returns to the pool. The PVC is not solid schedule 40. It's a flex PVC. The main return to the pool folded over and kinked hence causing high back pressure and low suction. I dug up the entire return and replaced it all with schedule 40.
Fellas, the pool never worked so well. The Barracuda races around the pool and my returns, with the aid of another half horses at the pump, push out a wake like to inboard motors, PROBLEM FIXED! THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR HELP.

Hayward 1.5hp pump, Hayward, S244T sand filter, Hayward CL220 Chlorinator.


I replaced the very old filter and upgraded the pump to 2 hp

[PoolDoc]

Out of curiosity, do you still have the CL220, or is that just a typo?

[captnapi]

A typo. I replaced the Hayward with a Pentair.
Thx again for helping.

[PoolDoc]

Yer welcome . . .