New Pool SWG & other questions

[aylad]

Hi maglib,
just wanted to make a few comments..

1. A FC of .5 is NOT enough to keep the pool clean and sanitary to swim in, regardless of what the pool people say. The mineral pack may be able to help combat algae with a very low chlorine level, but it will not do anything for bacteria and viruses, which need the chlorine to kill them off.

2. Dry acid and muriatic acid accomplish the same goal--they lower pH and TA at the same time, which is a good thing. You'll find that your pH will be more stable if you keep your TA lower--I think the SWCG experts recommend somewhere in the 80 range.

3. Your CYA does need to come up some--it will help keep the chlorine in rhe pool, and most say that the SWCG cell life is longest and the unit works at its most efficient with the CYA at the manufacturer recommended level, which is usually around 80 ppm.

4. Your calcium levels should be in the 200-400 range, so bumping up to 250-300 would be okay.

5. Phosphate removers are usually not needed, and just a way to drain a little extra money from your wallet by scaring you into thinking that you'll have a pool full of algae if you don't buy it....don't buy it!! Proper chlorination will keep the pool algae free.

6. This site makes money through the Google ads, and by people subscribing.

Hope this helps!

Janet

[maglib]

Thanks again. So where would you recomend I keep my chlorine levels at?
With 41k gallons the pool is expensive and I wish I had read about the BBB method first.

Why would I get small black spots in my plaster if the chlorine is at 2 like it is and I have the SWG and the mineral cartridge? Scrubbing them out didn't work and neither did superchlorinate. When I added the phosfree I did get them to dissipate but I didn't clean filters so the phosphate levels went way back up off the charts and the black spots came back. They are small, some the size of a pencil point and a couple the width of your pinky with most the width of an eraser. Most are in our ledge where we do have jets.

I love this site.

[aylad]

I'll let Pooldoc or one of the SWCG experts give you that answer, but I believe the recommended chlorine level is 5% of your CYA level. So with a CYA of 80, I think you need to keep your chlorine around 4 ppm.

I don't know what to tell you about the black spots..but I will see if Pooldoc can take another look at the thread, and maybe he can offer a suggestion.

Janet

[PoolDoc]

Thanks again. So where would you recomend I keep my chlorine levels at?

You need to follow the Best Guess chart . . . which means your correct FC levels are determined by your CYA level. Keep in mind that if your CYA level is below 40, you'll have high chlorine loss to sunlight.

Why would I get small black spots in my plaster if the chlorine is at 2 like it is and I have the SWG and the mineral cartridge?

Your spots could be:
#1 - black algae, OR
#2 - copper oxide staining on some element in the pool coat, OR
#3 - something else.

To test for black algae: get a plain uncolored toothpick -- preferably flat -- and scrape off a bit of the black spot. If you can not do so -- it's not black algae. Smear the bit you scraped off on a white piece of paper -- a 3 x 5 card is perfect, then use a knife or spoon to spread it out. Black algae, spread thin, will be dark green. If it's any other color, it's not black algae.

To test for copper stains: put a vitamin C tablet on one of the stains. If the vitamin C lightens the spot, it's probably copper.

If both tests fail, we'll have to re-think.

But you seem to have some misconceptions about your equipment:

+ Most 'mineral' units do nothing. Those that 'work' add enough copper to cause staining. A few still include silver, which WILL cause black stains, but usually not localized ones.

+ Contrary to what many people think, a salt system (SWCG => Salt Water Chlorine Generator) is nothing more than a way to add chlorine to your pool. With an SWCG, an electrical current is passed through a solution (pool water) containing sufficient salt (chloride - Cl-) so that chlorine (Cl+) can be generated.

+ Phosphate removers are occasionally helpful, always messy, but never essential.

+ Adequate chlorine levels MUST be determined by the Best Guess chart, which sets chlorine level based on CYA level.

+ To PREVENT black algae, simply maintaining correct chlorine levels, per the BG chart is enough.

+ To CONTROL black algae, once established, it's necessary to maintain shock levels (BG chart again) for long periods of time AND to brush the areas where algae appears.

+ To ERADICATE black algae -- on concrete pools -- usually requires draining the pool.

[maglib]

You can't scrape it, it looks like it's actually part of the plaster.
The vitamin C did nothing either.

When weather changes I'll try to get some pictures. It looks like more spots every day. We had a lot of rain recently.

Can I not replace the ozonator and just keep using the SWCG? Seems I really don't like the idea of the metals in an ozonator and when my chlorine levels are low as they say they can be, I get all types of frogs in my filters and other bugs. When I maintain chlorine over 2.0 I don't have a problem with the creatures as much.

I contacted the company of the system asking about the fact that my pool is over the 40k limit and they never responded. I think I'll call.

I'm going to call pool company about possibly getting a lawyer regarding the concrete, possibly the SWG being too small, and the DE filter not being in accordance with town requirements.

Thanks for all ou help.

[maglib]

I can't see my reply I guess because I'm new otherwise I'd edit last message.
I checked the Best guess chart and what I don't understand is the accuracy of this when using a SWCG and mineral cartridge.

Since I was told to get my CYA up to 80 but my chlorine levels need to be only .5 since I have the mineral cartridge. On our own we're getting them to between 1-2 but this chart tells us they need to be even higher.

I can't remove the mineral cartridge as there is nothing to cap it.

Appreciation once again.

[PoolDoc]

Pictures of everything would help. If you take them, send them -- full size! -- to poolforum AT gmail DOT com or poolforum.pics AT gmail DOT com.

We don't have recommended chlorine levels IF you actually have metals (Cu &/or Ag) in your pool water. Mineral cartridges come in two types: those that are worthless, because they do nothing, and those that are WORSE than worthless because they put uncontrolled and unpredictable amounts of metals in your water.

I'm you might try Iron Out, but I'm not sure that it would remove silver, if that's what the stain is.

If you can report models and mfgs on the mineral unit and the ozone unit that would help.

Ben

[CarlD]

What you need is a lawyer who does litigation. If you give Ben permission to give me your eMail address, I can contact you off-line and see what we can find. We have almost as many lawyers in NJ as we have diners, and badly marked roads! It also depends on where you are in the Garden State. I personally know lawyers who do criminal (like traffic or worse), real estate, personal estates and wills, adoptions, and labor law. But a lawyer who sues someone for you for non-performance of a contract (or defends you against it) is not one I've yet had to use. However, they aren't hard to find.

Unfortunately, I think it's messy. They didn't install the DE filter and didn't install the code drain for it. They installed an inadequate SWCG and stuck you with a Nature2 attachment (did you actually agree to Nature2?). The concrete deck is cracking and stained. The pool surfaces is stained. And the chemical advice they are giving you is (mostly) wrong and will cause algae.

Carl