New Pool SWG & other questions

[maglib]

New 41k+ plaster pool and I have a couple of questions and opinions to ask?

1We got a SWG and so far without shock we can't get it to produce chlorine levels higher than 1. I have a couple of issues, first the pool is over 41k gallons and the SWG is a Nature2 Fusion Soft 1400 which after reading directions has a maximum size of 40k gallons. Is this a material difference that I should require pool company to replace with one that is compatible with my size? Pool company states that as long as we don't have algae it doesn't matter if the chlorine reads 0 but we don't let algae grow and shock it once we see small black spots on the plaster. We did have a extremely high phosphate level and now got that under 100 and still can't get decent chlorine readings.We also note that it keeps going to "no flow" and just pulling the cartridge out gets it back to flow. Our hardness levels were low and there are no noticeable deposits.

The only levels we can't get correct other than chlorine yet are Ph and we've been adding a half gallon of muriatic acid ever week or more.

2.The pool company promised us a DE filter and put in a cartridge filter. We want DE as we had one in the past and had no issues and loved it. We are now told that they can't install the DE one until after we have final inspections as it requires some drain per code. They said we'd have to put this drain in if we wanted to follow code (nice ethics). Per our contract it says DE and it also says the pool had to be done in accordance with code but there is nothing of course in writing about who would be responsible for the DE drain system (the rep who sold us the pool no longer works there and she said it would be done but it's not specifically written) but now we believe they purposfully put the cartridge filter in and keep trying to convince us to keep it. We met another couple who told us they had a contract for DE and the same thing happened to them. As per the contract the filter is an integral part of the pool and for the DE filter to pass local code a drain is required so hence I would believe the pool company should pay. Thoughts?

3 a return has rocks or plaster peices in it about the size of a half pinky (a couple of pieces). The pool company says will dissolve on own and not to worry.

4. concrete was contracted through pool company with 3rd party. Concrete cracked immediately and is discolored and has rolling edges, sloppy repairs, yellow and dark discoloration (45 days later) and is dirty from plasters boots along with just sloppy workmanship. What would you do if you were in my shoes. They already tried to bleach the concrete and the pool company's guy said it was one of the worst jobs he's seen but I'm sure he wouldn't repeat that to his boss. I want the cracked and severely discolored blocks replaced but 1 is near filter basket and another is a corner. Of course they don't want to do anything. I can't believe they just want to fill it and nobody wants to clean it. They are blaming my loamy orange soil. Hello, they knew what soil i had and they also need to deliver me a clean finished product as i didn't buy a broken, cracked pool. Note they've been paid and the only $ I have is still the $250 for finals.

5. How much water can I expect to lose when the temps hit 100 degrees for 3 days? I have full sun. Would 3" be a lot?

Any help and opininions would be extremly nice. Note I did check the company out in advance and amazing still have a number of issues. Thank you in advance.

(Note we've been running the filter almost 24 hours for 3-4 days and 12-15 the other days.)

[Watermom]

Hi maglib and welcome to the Pool Forum! Someone else with more installation/building type of knowledge will better be able to answer most of your questions, but I wanted to say hello and glad you found us. Also, instead of starting a new thread when you have more to add, just reply to this one. I moved your info made in your separate thread into this one for you.

Hope you enjoy the forum.

[PoolDoc]

Pool company states that as long as we don't have algae it doesn't matter if the chlorine reads 0 but we don't let algae grow and shock it once we see small black spots on the plaster.

BS. The pool company is full of it. Tell them to show you how to operate your SWCG to maintain an adequate (per mfg standards) chlorine level, or to replace with a unit that will work.

The only levels we can't get correct other than chlorine yet are Ph and we've been adding a half gallon of muriatic acid ever week or more.

Buy the chemicals, but let them demonstrate pH control for you, while they do the other.

The pool company promised us a DE filter and put in a cartridge filter. We want DE as we had one in the past and had no issues and loved it. We are now told that they can't install the DE one until after we have final inspections as it requires some drain per code. They said we'd have to put this drain in if we wanted to follow code (nice ethics). Per our contract it says DE and it also says the pool had to be done in accordance with code but there is nothing of course in writing about who would be responsible for the DE drain system (the rep who sold us the pool no longer works there and she said it would be done but it's not specifically written)

You've probably lost this one, unless you want to go to court. But check the code. All that may be required is a separation tank to keep DE from going down the drain, like this one:
http://store.poolcenter.com/pentair-...e-p158087.aspx

If you can afford the $400 hit, DE will give you better water quality.

a return has rocks or plaster peices in it about the size of a half pinky (a couple of pieces). The pool company says will dissolve on own and not to worry.

Get them to guarantee in writing that it will dissolve within 3 months, or that they will remove it.

4. concrete was contracted through pool company with 3rd party. Concrete cracked immediately and is discolored and has rolling edges, sloppy repairs, yellow and dark discoloration (45 days later) and is dirty from plasters boots along with just sloppy workmanship. What would you do if you were in my shoes. They already tried to bleach the concrete and the pool company's guy said it was one of the worst jobs he's seen but I'm sure he wouldn't repeat that to his boss. I want the cracked and severely discolored blocks replaced but 1 is near filter basket and another is a corner. Of course they don't want to do anything. I can't believe they just want to fill it and nobody wants to clean it. They are blaming my loamy orange soil. Hello, they knew what soil i had and they also need to deliver me a clean finished product as i didn't buy a broken, cracked pool. Note they've been paid and the only $ I have is still the $250 for finals.

Talk to a lawyer. You may need one. Concrete that's bad now, will tend to be worse later.

How much water can I expect to lose when the temps hit 100 degrees for 3 days? I have full sun. Would 3" be a lot?

Yes. Do a bucket test:
Get a five gallon bucked and fill it with 4 gallons of water. Mark the water level in the bucket AND the pool. Put it in the pool, on the steps or suspended with a rope so the bucket water temp = pool water temp. Take pictures and get your neighbor or friend to witness. Wait 3 days, and compare.

If the water level drop in the bucket = the drop in the pool, it's evap. If not, have them fix the leaks OR talk to the lawyer.

Actually, given all the issues, you may want to talk to a lawyer NOW, just to make sure you preserve all your rights in case you have to sue. If you have the lawyer write some sort of letter requesting some paper or other "so my client can preserve his rights to make legal claims", your builder may put you at the top of his TO-DO list. And, given the issues you describe, he may be on his way out, so act quickly. One of the symptoms of a good contractor going belly up are some of the problems you describe. If this is happening, being at the FIRST of the line, you may be able to get some stuff resolved. It sort of depends on whether he's a good guy going under or a bad guy. But, do NOT assume he's acting out of bad will.

[maglib]

Thank you for the responses. Do you know what type of lawyer I should look for? My lawyer is a finance guy and charges obscene rates and i'm assuming a local lawyer could handle this.

I also can tell you that the pool company has a number of jobs and doesn't appear to be going out of business at all. Amazingly they did a number of pools i've seen and they didn't have the same problems. I also know they all went with cartridge (other than 1 who went with DE and the pool company did the same thing with them on switching it after inspections and telling them cartridge was better, cancer stuff, etc), didn't have a lot of concrete and they all had more typical black soil.....

[PoolDoc]

Can't really help with lawyer recommendations. So far in life, I've been fortunate enough to not have had one. I've been ripped off a few times by customers, but so far they all had better lawyers than I'd ever be able to afford, and the losses were $10,000 in the worst case, so it wasn't worthy calling one. In your case, however, a lawyer may be able to help you make sure you're first in line when the claims start, but that's ONLY a guess.

Ben

[maglib]

Okay, got another question for you....
Along with the SWG we have a mineral cartridge and the pool guy is telling us we don't need free chlorine higher than .5
Here are my water analysis:
FAC = 2 they say .5 is enough due to mineral cartridge
TAC = 2 " " "
PH=8 we've been adding half gallon of muriatic acid in deep end weekly with no help. They said to use dry acid as the Muriatic drops TA which raises PH again.... dry acid is much more expensive and Alk up is cheap baking soda... Thoughts?
TA=100 he said he wants us closer to 120
CYA=40 they said to add more and get to 80
calcium hardness=200 said try to get to 250-300
Salt = 3200 exactly where we want to be
iron = none
Phosphates = >1000 we put in phosfree and then didn't clean filters so we are trying again. Note we did have small black dots on the new plaster that when we used the Phos Free disappeared but the SWG wasn't working so it may have been due to the bad sensors on the SWG not producing chlorine.

Pool is crystal clear otherwise.

[maglib]

How does this site make money? Just advertisers?

(deleted remark that can get me in trouble with Google. PoolDoc)

Thanks

[aylad]

Hi maglib,
just wanted to make a few comments..

1. A FC of .5 is NOT enough to keep the pool clean and sanitary to swim in, regardless of what the pool people say. The mineral pack may be able to help combat algae with a very low chlorine level, but it will not do anything for bacteria and viruses, which need the chlorine to kill them off.

2. Dry acid and muriatic acid accomplish the same goal--they lower pH and TA at the same time, which is a good thing. You'll find that your pH will be more stable if you keep your TA lower--I think the SWCG experts recommend somewhere in the 80 range.

3. Your CYA does need to come up some--it will help keep the chlorine in rhe pool, and most say that the SWCG cell life is longest and the unit works at its most efficient with the CYA at the manufacturer recommended level, which is usually around 80 ppm.

4. Your calcium levels should be in the 200-400 range, so bumping up to 250-300 would be okay.

5. Phosphate removers are usually not needed, and just a way to drain a little extra money from your wallet by scaring you into thinking that you'll have a pool full of algae if you don't buy it....don't buy it!! Proper chlorination will keep the pool algae free.

6. This site makes money through the Google ads, and by people subscribing.

Hope this helps!

Janet

[maglib]

Thanks again. So where would you recomend I keep my chlorine levels at?
With 41k gallons the pool is expensive and I wish I had read about the BBB method first.

Why would I get small black spots in my plaster if the chlorine is at 2 like it is and I have the SWG and the mineral cartridge? Scrubbing them out didn't work and neither did superchlorinate. When I added the phosfree I did get them to dissipate but I didn't clean filters so the phosphate levels went way back up off the charts and the black spots came back. They are small, some the size of a pencil point and a couple the width of your pinky with most the width of an eraser. Most are in our ledge where we do have jets.

I love this site.

[aylad]

I'll let Pooldoc or one of the SWCG experts give you that answer, but I believe the recommended chlorine level is 5% of your CYA level. So with a CYA of 80, I think you need to keep your chlorine around 4 ppm.

I don't know what to tell you about the black spots..but I will see if Pooldoc can take another look at the thread, and maybe he can offer a suggestion.

Janet