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Thread: Clear water, everything else wrong?

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  1. #1
    PoolDoc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Clear water, everything else wrong?

    Actually, if the washing soda (soda ash, pH +) and baking soda only clouded up your pool, without causing major staining . . . . you've done well. It was a big risk, but fortunate is often better than smart! There's a fair chance you've begun removing the copper as copper carbonate.

    Check for stains, and if you don't have them, you may want to continue with the soda ash. If you add it in small doses to the skimmer, there's a good chance you'll load up the copper carbonate on the filter, rather than in your pool.

    But, do go ahead with the polyquat. It will help remove the stuff in the water AND prevent algae.

    The loose cannon here is the EDTA. It will break down, from UV and chlorine, and release the copper it has sequestered. Where that copper will go is not certain. However, if you go ahead and raise your pH to near 8.0 with the soda ash, you may be able to, again, take the copper out on the filter as copper carbonate. That would be my best guess -- but I *am* guessing.

    What you have to keep in mind is that the EDTA may be controlling your copper, but that it's a strictly temporary solution: it will break down, and release the copper. It may be better to try to control that, rather than letting it happen who-knows-when.

    Higher pH with chlorine has been used to decompose EDTA. And though the pH levels used industrially are higher than you can use, we can hope that by raising the pH, and then *slowly* adding chlorine you may well be able to pull off the trick of breaking the EDTA and removing the copper without staining.

    So, add the polyquat, and then slowly use the soda ash to push your pH to the 8.0 range.

    Once there, begin slowly chlorinating (over several days) with small doses of calcium hypochlorite -- possibly available as shock -- added DIRECTLY to the skimmers. VERY IMPORTANT: Do NOT do this unless you have completely followed my earlier recommendation to remove ALL chlorine tabs, feeders and cartridges from your system. You must NOT allow cal hypo to come into direct contact with trichlor!

    What you are trying to do is:
    + Add polyquat to prevent algae while you are monkeying around (and it helps with filtration).
    + Raise the pH using carbonates to help precipitate the copper onto the filter as copper carbonate.
    + Maintain the high pH with carbonates, and begin adding chlorine with a high pH chlorine source that also adds carbonates, with the goal of breaking the EDTA down, and taking the remaining copper out on the filter.

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    Default Re: Clear water, everything else wrong?

    Awesome stuff, Ben. THANKS!!

    Is it correct to assume that, once I get balanced and start using BBB, that I will forego using chlorine tabs and only use bleach? Or are tabs still recommended?

    So much to learn...

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    Default Re: Clear water, everything else wrong?

    You can do it either way.

    It's sometimes easier to do both; that way you maintain your stabilizer levels without having them go too high. If you already have tabs, that would use them up. But, if not, you can go all bleach.

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    Default Re: Clear water, everything else wrong?

    An update: pH is 7.5 and holding pretty steady... however, I can't get TA up to save my life, even after buying my local market out of baking soda. Still hovering under 40. Any suggestions? Any reasons spring to mind?
    19,000 gallons, vinyl, 250 sq ft cartridge filter, automatic cover, 1 hp pump, heater

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    Default Re: Clear water, everything else wrong?

    FC: 5
    pH: 6.8
    TA: 60
    CYA: 100

    So... my guess is add washing soda which will raise pH and also slightly raise TA?
    19,000 gallons, vinyl, 250 sq ft cartridge filter, automatic cover, 1 hp pump, heater

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    Default Re: Clear water, everything else wrong?

    You can do that, but if your TA rises faster than your pH, you may end up needing to switch to Borax after awhile. Kind of depends on how low your pH actually is. Since the pH tester only goes to 6.8, it could really be much lower than that.

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    Default Re: Clear water, everything else wrong?

    Opened filter for first time in a week. It is covered in aqua "stuff". Consistency of wet paint, completely covered. Linking pictures because I'm not sure you'd believe me otherwise.

    (pics removed by moderator)
    Ummm... help?
    19,000 gallons, vinyl, 250 sq ft cartridge filter, automatic cover, 1 hp pump, heater

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    Default Re: Clear water, everything else wrong?

    Laguna,
    please email the pics to poolforum AT gmail DOT com and include a link to this thread so that we can add the pics.

    Thanks

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Clear water, everything else wrong?

    Sent, thank you!
    19,000 gallons, vinyl, 250 sq ft cartridge filter, automatic cover, 1 hp pump, heater

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