Clear water, everything else wrong?

[Laguna]

Ok Ben... I didn't wait for your reply before going to work on the pool last night. So I have not followed your instructions exactly.

Last night I added ~6lb of washing soda for pH and got it to about 7.4 (according to the sticks I have, which is the only thing I have right now). It was reading "off the chart" low before that.

I then added 4lb of baking soda for alk and it now reads about 40 on the cheap sticks, where before it was also not registering.

Free chlorine is showing around 6, which is weird (maybe you will tell me it isn't weird), because it was around 3 before adding the sodas.

So anyway, what I have as of this morning, at least what I can tell from the not-very-specific testing strips, is:

FC: 6
pH: 7.5
TA: 40

The water clouded up pretty badly from the baking soda, but that was almost gone when I opened the pool this morning (automatic cover). This is the first time I've ever seen my pH higher than 7.0, even after dumping loads of pH+ previously before I thought to seek out help on the internet. Since the previous owners left behind two giant containers of pH+, I'm assuming this was a big issue for them as well.

So my next step is the polyquat? Or should I get tested at a pool place to see what the copper looks like and to get a more accurate reading on the other numbers before I take next steps? I don't yet have a good testing kit.

[PoolDoc]

Actually, if the washing soda (soda ash, pH +) and baking soda only clouded up your pool, without causing major staining . . . . you've done well. It was a big risk, but fortunate is often better than smart! There's a fair chance you've begun removing the copper as copper carbonate.

Check for stains, and if you don't have them, you may want to continue with the soda ash. If you add it in small doses to the skimmer, there's a good chance you'll load up the copper carbonate on the filter, rather than in your pool.

But, do go ahead with the polyquat. It will help remove the stuff in the water AND prevent algae.

The loose cannon here is the EDTA. It will break down, from UV and chlorine, and release the copper it has sequestered. Where that copper will go is not certain. However, if you go ahead and raise your pH to near 8.0 with the soda ash, you may be able to, again, take the copper out on the filter as copper carbonate. That would be my best guess -- but I *am* guessing.

What you have to keep in mind is that the EDTA may be controlling your copper, but that it's a strictly temporary solution: it will break down, and release the copper. It may be better to try to control that, rather than letting it happen who-knows-when.

Higher pH with chlorine has been used to decompose EDTA. And though the pH levels used industrially are higher than you can use, we can hope that by raising the pH, and then *slowly* adding chlorine you may well be able to pull off the trick of breaking the EDTA and removing the copper without staining.

So, add the polyquat, and then slowly use the soda ash to push your pH to the 8.0 range.

Once there, begin slowly chlorinating (over several days) with small doses of calcium hypochlorite -- possibly available as shock -- added DIRECTLY to the skimmers. VERY IMPORTANT: Do NOT do this unless you have completely followed my earlier recommendation to remove ALL chlorine tabs, feeders and cartridges from your system. You must NOT allow cal hypo to come into direct contact with trichlor!

What you are trying to do is:
+ Add polyquat to prevent algae while you are monkeying around (and it helps with filtration).
+ Raise the pH using carbonates to help precipitate the copper onto the filter as copper carbonate.
+ Maintain the high pH with carbonates, and begin adding chlorine with a high pH chlorine source that also adds carbonates, with the goal of breaking the EDTA down, and taking the remaining copper out on the filter.

[Laguna]

Awesome stuff, Ben. THANKS!!

Is it correct to assume that, once I get balanced and start using BBB, that I will forego using chlorine tabs and only use bleach? Or are tabs still recommended?

So much to learn...

[PoolDoc]

You can do it either way.

It's sometimes easier to do both; that way you maintain your stabilizer levels without having them go too high. If you already have tabs, that would use them up. But, if not, you can go all bleach.

[Laguna]

An update: pH is 7.5 and holding pretty steady... however, I can't get TA up to save my life, even after buying my local market out of baking soda. Still hovering under 40. Any suggestions? Any reasons spring to mind?

[Watermom]

If your pH starts swinging, then you can worry about TA but as long as it is holding steady at 7.5, don't worry about it.

[Laguna]

FC: 5
pH: 6.8
TA: 60
CYA: 100

So... my guess is add washing soda which will raise pH and also slightly raise TA?

[Laguna]

Opened filter for first time in a week. It is covered in aqua "stuff". Consistency of wet paint, completely covered. Linking pictures because I'm not sure you'd believe me otherwise.

(pics removed by moderator)
Ummm... help?

[aylad]

Laguna,
please email the pics to poolforum AT gmail DOT com and include a link to this thread so that we can add the pics.

Thanks