Looking for help...green and cloudy with some pink in the pipes...?

[poolpatience]

I have visited this forum quite often...wonderful place to find some wonderful info! So, I finally registered in order to share my troubles with you guys and hopefully get some help and advice. And, maybe, if I can overcome this mess of a pool I have, I can later help others. I'll list all the info below, but first off, I dunno even know if I can ask a specific question...we'll start with the problem-S.

Okay, we opened the pool May 29. It was about half full, clear, but full of leaves and debris probably from last fall before we got it covered. We added fill water from a stream that is in very good condition (everytime we've filled, it's been near perfectly balanced). This, of course stirred up the mess on bottom, so we blindly dug the leaves out. The next morning, the water was dark nasty green. First things first, I added chlorine. We'd clean the debris out, brush the walls and floor and add chlorine while running the filter 24/7. The water started looking better within a few days. Took a sample in to a local hardware store that does pool testing and discovered low hardness, low alkalinity, great pH, through the roof chlorine (lol...which kinda freaked the hardware store ppl out) and a high combined chlorine along with a copper reading of 0.29. I thought it best to keep up the chlorine until I didn't lose any ground overnight, before adjusting everything else.
So, after about a week, the water looked better (turned a lighter green, kinda light olive color, but still cloudy), and the chlorine was holding wonderfully. I waited a few days to let the chlorine come down in the hopes that the cloudiness would go away. Just in case something was alive that I was missing, I added an algaecide for insurancce...unfortunately, it was a copper algaecide, but around the time I added it, I noticed you could faintly see the bottom of the pool. I added a metal out as per others advice and my own thinking maybe the high levels of copper was keeping the water green...it was no help, no change. My chlorine was still normal, so I decide to adjust all the levels (used baking soda and hardness increaser). This made the water clarity a little better, but still only faintly see the bottom and still light green.
Had water tested again and everything was near balanced except the copper...it went up to 0.79 and I now was reading an iron level of 0.11! Never had iron before...? I come home and decide to vac to waste and pump some new water in to try and help that metal level. I do this and test again...copper dropped to 0.51 and iron was 0.0. Was still not happy with that copper, thinking it was making my water green, so I added a dose of metal out plus.
That was two days ago (test today showed 0.38 copper and 0.0 iron). Pool is still light green...it's looking bluer around the edges, but no major change...I can still see the bottom very faintly all the way around the pool, BUT, this evening, I found some pink stuff around the fittings on the inside of the clear pipe between my filter and pump...guessing I have that pink slime stuff...? Could it be affecting the light green water in the pool? I have no idea what I'm dealing with here or how to fix it. Draining (to a safe level) is what I'm thinking, but I wanna make sure I do everything right and get everything cleaned up properly. Any help, advice, experience, or instructions would be greatly appreciated!
Pool Info: 11,700 gallon 21' Round AboveGround, Vinyl, with a Hayward sand filter (running 24/7 since May 29th)
Been using Trichlor pucks in floating chlorinator
Shocked with 65% Dichlor chlorine granules
Test Results as of today:
FC 1.6
TC 2.7
CC 1.1
pH 7.7
Hardness 190
Alkalinity (w/stabilizer correction) 97
Cyanuric Acid 45
Copper 0.38
Iron 0.0
I apologize for making such a long post, but I wanted to tell everything I've done up to this point. Thanks again to anyone who can help!

[PoolDoc]

Hi Patience;

I'm surprised, if you've been visiting my sites, you added hardness increaser to a liner pool! No big deal -- I don't think it's part of the problem -- but just surprised.

OK. While I don't trust your copper testing results, if you've added a copper algaecide, you can't shock. Do this:

#1 - Leave your pump on 24/7
#2 - Get some chlorine tabs, and chlorinate via the skimmer. Make SURE that your pump is running 100% of the time, when tabs are in the skimmer.
#3 - Get some polyquat algaecide (www.poolsolutions/gd/polyquat.html for info) and use it. Add it DIRECTLY to the pool, focusing on areas with visible algae or goo.
#4 - Do NOT add any more alkalinity (baking soda) or hardness increaser.
#5 - Get some DE powder and use it to TEST your filter by adding 2 cups of DE to the skimmer (You can add DE or borax with the tabs still in the skimmer, but REMOVE the tabs -- not the skimmer basket -- before adding anything else.) If the DE shoots back into the pool, you'll need to check the sand in the filter, and probably add more. Backwash within 4 hours, to remove DE.
#6 - Once you've verified good filter operation, you can use the DE to help filter goo. But, it will make your filter stop up very quickly, so only do this when you are home, and can backwash frequently!! Add 2 cups of DE to the skimmer (as before) and backwash when pressure increases 4# OR when you need to leave the house.
#7 - Continue brushing and vacuuming till 100% of debris and clinging algae is either removed or floating free in the water.
#8 - Gradually increase the tabs to bring your chlorine up to 5 ppm after 4 days.
#9 - Use borax, added to the skimmer, if your pH begins to get too low (less than 7.2)
#10 - Do NOT shock for at least a week, unless you want copper stains.
#11 - Be what your PoolForum name says -- you aren't going to get an instant fix, and chasing one will make things worse.

The tabs in the skimmers will help break down the chelants and such holding the copper in the water, so you can get it out. The high chlorine in the pipes (and on the filter) will tend to cause the metals to deposit there, instead of in your pool.

You also need to get a real test kit, with FAS-DPD chlorine testing, among other things. Your dealer testing is somewhat bogus -- the numbers are impossible -- so I'm not sure what's actually the case with your pool.

The Taylor 2006 or 2006C (Amazon links in my signature) is probably your best choice. But, if you buy from Amazon, make sure the seller is "Amato Ind" -- some of the other sellers have been delivering K2005 kits on purchase links that say the K2006. As of right now (Monday AM) you can get the 2006C from Amato (2 oz bottles) but the 2006 (0.75 oz bottles) is showing "Universal" or some such as the seller.

[poolpatience]

Thanks so much PoolDoc/Ben! Just having read your reply I already feel better about my pool! I have an OTO test kit (chlorine and pH) that I started using yesterday...the strips are a joke, and it's looking look my 'professional tests' I had done are, too. I'm going to go check out the Taylor test kits when I finish and hopefully get one ordered soon. Also wanted to let you know that I do feel quite foolish for adding the hardness increaser...I had read a great deal on your site but it was mostly about algae problems...I passed right by that whole calcium-vinyl thing. I am wiser now, though...poorer (after buying 16 pounds of that junk), but wiser! I did try bleach when we first opened, though, and 5 gallons didn't budge the chlorine reading of 0, so I did splurge and buy the granules in an effort to speed the process up.
Okay, so I'm guessing it's okay to use the trichlor tabs in the skimmer...? I'm not going to be able to get D.E. until Friday (it's actually hard to find the stuff around here), so should I go ahead and get that chlorine going and pour in the polyquat in the meantime...and does it matter what the chlorine reads at this point (I assume keep it under 5 ppm as per #8 in your instructions)? Then Friday, get the D.E. and start that evening with the testing filtration, brushing and vacuuming? Then, continue on to raising the chlorine to 5 after 4 days (Tuesday-ish)? Sorry for the questions, but again, I wanna make sure. I haven't really ran in crazy circles, but I have definitely not made any progress either, so I wanna get this right...lol!
Also wanted to let you know that due to the cloudy water, I've been keeping a nylon (knee high) on the skimmer basket to filter those finer particles...didn't take the time to order skimmer socks and found that many people used knee highs with success, so I thought I'd give it a try. It's caught a bit of debris, but not a whole lot (exception was that it was full of muddy looking junk the day after I used the metal out...dunno if that means anything or not). Nonetheless, I wanted to let you know and see if you thought it something I should do or not and whether or not I should keep doing it.
Thanks again for all your help and your patience! I'm ready to roll up my sleeves and get to work on this thing...I have faith that it'll eventually come clean (hopefully by the fourth, but I'm not holding my breath...lol)!

[aylad]

Yes, it's okay to use trichlor tabs in the skimmer--but keep your pump running 24/7 while doing so. If you turn the pump off, you'll have a skimmer full of high-chlorine, low pH water that will hit your pipes and pump on startup, and it's not good for them. Yes, go ahead and add the polyquat at this point, then get your filter tested as soon as you can, per Ben's instructions. Otherwise, it sounds like you've got a handle on it--it's just a matter now of adding a good dose of POPP--pool owner patience and persistence!! (And the skimmer sock will never hurt..... )

Janet

[poolpatience]

Thanks Janet! I really appreciate the info. I've got the tabs in the skimmer, pump running constantly (my chlorine based on my OTO test 5+ and pH was 7.8). The water is looking slightly better already, but it looks a little slimy/filmy on top (hard to describe). I can't wait to get that DE and give it a whirl! I'll update as soon as I find out about the filter or if they're are any changes. Again, thanks so much! You guys are awesome!

[poolpatience]

Hello everyone! Just an update...going to get my DE this evening and try it out ASAP. I've been keeping tabs in the skimmer and my skimmer sock/knee high has been catching a ton of little debris. I know I shouldn't shock to avoid staining, but the tabs in the basket have been keeping a chlorine level greater than 5 in the pool...However, I had checked the eye of the return for slime and found an orange stain on the actual eye (this was the day after I posted here, so I guess I already had staining issues). I was just wondering if anybody had a guess as to how serious of a staining problem I might have from keeping the chlorine high these last few days?
Also wanted to let ya'll know that I ordered a K-2006 test kit! Can't wait for it to get here! I'll post again after I try out the DE. Thanks again for all of your help!!! Hope everyone has a wonderful weekend!

[poolpatience]

It's been 10 days since my initial post. I've done everything in the instructions with the exception of the last step...POPP...I'm still working on that one.
Okay, put in DE Saturday and filter checked out okay (diluted 2 cups in some pool water and poured down the skimmer; within 10 minutes pressure jumped almost 3 pounds; may have poured it in a little fast, but the test proved that the filter is working either way). Backwashed and added 1 and 1/2 cups to filter which raised pressure about a pound and let filter overnight; pressure raised about 1/2 pound overnight; repeated again with 2 cups DE Sunday which raised 1 pound (and which is why I figure I poured it in too fast the first time), kept an eye on it Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday. There was barely any pressure raise over these 3 days. Each time I backwash, I see the DE come out white followed by a very small amount of tan water...backwashing is complete within a couple minutes. My skimmer sock/nylon isn't catching very much debris...for those 3 days it didn't catch anything but bugs; then we had some rain Monday and a little Tuesday, so last night there was a little debris and leaves caught in the sock. I'm wondering if it's just that fine or if the majority of it is actually filtered out. We've been brushing everyday and it appears that most of it is gone (no clouds of green and tan rising in the water, no slimy feeling on the walls). The water clarity looks good still, but it is still green. It appears to be clearing from the outside though. I can see the entire return including the actual eye, and today I can see below the bottom of the skimmer. It looks clearer about 1/4 of the way down and about 6-8 inches in from the edges. The green does seem to be looking more blue-green in places and gray in places...
I got my test kit yesterday evening so I only had time to test the chlorine and pH. Here's what I got:
Free Chlorine-8.0
Combined Chlorine-1.5
pH-7.4 (If chlorine is high, then pH is sometimes not accurate, right...?)
Just wondering if there is anything I should do now, or continue waiting? I have no problem with POPP, just wanna make sure I take the right steps to clear this thing. My husband is starting to get anxious on me. Friday starts his week vacation from work and he wants to swim...he's told me he would really rather drain out most of the water to try to help it clear up...I dunno if that's a good idea at all...lol!
Thanks again for all your help...it's greatly appreciated!

[PoolDoc]

Lemme see if I understand:
+ your pool is clear, but greenish;
+ the visible algae & debris is gone;
+ you've got a K2006 and your FC=8.0 and your CC=1.5;
+ your filter is working OK.

Is that right?

If so, you just need to keep your chlorine up, your pump on, and your patience working. As far as I know, there's no reason why you can't swim right now. With those CC's -- probably from your past chemical history, but possibly, from what was in the stream -- may take some days of high chlorine and sunlight to disappear. The green but clear color is the same.

You might want to go ahead and test both TA and CH, and tell us what those readings are.

[poolpatience]

Sorry I wasn't specific enough...the water isn't clear, but is green...it's murky and looks kinda grayish green-bluish green-green (it's not pretty...lol). There is no algae that I can see in the pool, but I can only see about 1/4 of the way down from the top and only about 6-8 inches inward from the edges. The water is very murky...I can see the bottom, but only very faintly...can barely make out the pattern on the liner.
I did purchase a K2006 and those readings are correct, and my filter is working properly (there just doesn't seem to be anything left to filter out...it's like whatever is causing the murky greeness is too small to be filtered by a skimmer sock or DE). I added 3 cups of DE yesterday which raised the pressure 2 pounds...everything is still the same this morning.
I also completed the other tests yesterday:
CYA-50
TA-100
Calcium Hardness-250? Had trouble with this one...tried it twice and it done the same thing both times. Maybe this has something to do with the condition of the water. I readied my sample, added in the calcium buffer, then added the calcium indicator...at this point, instead of the 'sample' turning red, tiny little floating specs turned red while the water they were floating in stayed clear...? I thought, okay, I'll try to do the test and watch for the specs to turn blue instead of the entire sample. However, when I started adding the hardness regeant, it took between 23 and 25 drops to turn purple instead of blue...? This happened both times I tried to test.
Could this floating stuff be a clue as to what's murking up the pool?

[PoolDoc]

+ CYA = 50 ppm. OK
+ Still greenish and murky. OK
+ pH above 7.2. OK
+ Chlorine variable, but up to 8 ppm
+ Pool gallons = ~12,000. OK


Do this:

#1 - Continue with the pump on 24/7 and the DE topcoat.
#2 - Get a gallon of muriatic acid (Home Depot, hardware store, etc.) and add 1/4 gallon to the pool. (Glasses, gloves, watch the fumes: after opening, submerge the jug part way into the pool water, so you can pour with the lip only a few inches above the water. Add about 1/4 of the jug.)
#3 - Test the pH an hour later. If it's 7.2 or above, repeat.
#4 - Adjust a return eyeball so it's 'ruffling' the water surface.
#5 - That evening, add 2 gallons of plain 6% household bleach, poured slowly into the skimmer. (Pump ON, any tabs or other chemicals REMOVED!!)

Continue doing all the above:
+ Lower the pH each time it goes above 7.2
+ Repeat evening chlorine dose each time the chlorine is below 8 ppm FC
+ Do not add other chemicals
+ Backwash as needed, and re-coat with DE.

If, after 2 days, the green is not all gray (no green), then:
+ Continue with the pH adjustment
+ Change to 3 gallon bleach doses and a target chlorine level of 12 ppm

After no more than 3 days, report FC, CC, pH (measure midday when chlorine is lowest), TA, CH, & CYA.

Explanation (abbreviated):
Trying to lower your TA via low pH and aeration, to remove any calcium scale; trying to keep your pH low to facilitate this AND to avoid copper staining; maintaining high enough chlorine to control algae and gradually kill it, without copper stains (hopefully); gradually increasing chlorine as (again, hopefully) the copper comes out on the filter.