Major Chemistry Problem on open

[psciotti]

Just checked the bag on the Pool Rover and it is picking up aqua colored - what I can only assume is - excess borax on the bottom of the pool. I switched to the fine collection bag - we'll see. Off the buy more chem reagents since I've tested and experimented so much I've run out.

Isn't life supposed to get easier when you turn 50!

[PoolDoc]

I just checked to see if your phone number was in your registration, but it wasn't. So, I'll go at it here.

I've seen aqua or turquoise backwash sediment from a filter a number of times. In every case I've seen it, there was one key factor: dissolved copper. I hadn't really connected this thread with your heater thread, except in a vague way, till just now.

What's likely happening is that your low pH water had dissolved massive amounts of copper into your water, from your heater and possibly also from your Nature2 units. Now, as your pH comes up, your copper is coming out, possibly as calcium carbonate, since your calcium is so high. This is the best possible outcome.

It COULD come out as copper oxide, and turn your liner BLACK!

Given this apparent monster copper level, let's modify what you are doing somewhat:
#1 - Until the copper is gone, never, NEVER add more than 1/2 gallon of bleach at a time; do NOT let your chlorine get above 2 ppm!
#2 - Find (probably at a pool store) a couple of quarts of polyquat (see www.poolsolutions.com/gd/polyquat ) and start using it, 2x per week.
#3 - Continue adding borax, but no more than 1/2 box at a time.
#4 - Continue to run your filter and pump 24/7.

You've kinda 'gone off the reservation' a couple of time; let me encourage you to stick to the plan, if you want to have any hope of saving your liner. Your pool's pH must have been very, very low for this to happen.

And, yes, extremely low pH plus extremely high copper would give you very clear water. But it's also destroyed your heater, and is likely to destroy your liner.

Your pool is sorta like a guy I knew who went for a checkup, only to find that he had advanced cancer. He was all "but, Dr, I feel fine!", to which the doctor essentially replied, "Maybe, but you are dying", and proceeded to make him really, really sick by treating him with chemo.

Your pool "looked fine", but it was being destroyed rapidly. It may still be destroyed. Extremely low pH, like you must have had, is about the worst thing you can do to a pool. Doesn't usually hurt people, but it 'kills' pools. What's we've done since simply has revealed the serious problem that was there before. The damage is apparent now, but was actually done days or weeks ago. Sorry to deliver such discouraging info, but there's no way to fix things without facing the reality. There's a small chance you can get the pool usable by this weekend, but I wouldn't bet on it.

Draining and refilling might be faster. But I'm just not sure how your liner will do -- a drain and refill stresses a liner, and yours might not survive. I wish I had some magic bullets for you, but I don't.

Best wishes,

[psciotti]

OUCH! I hear what your saying. Don't have the facility to dump the pool without calling a septic company to come pump it so I'll go with the flow and see what happens. First thing tomorrow I'll take the heater offline. The chlorine level is still high due to the bleach fiasco but it is settling. I just tested the water and a few questions:

Readings:

Pool-
FC= 8-10 range ... off DPD chart but not to far (I did order the FAS kit)
TC= slightly higher maybe 10-12
PH= 7.2
TA= Only turned pale yellow - even after 30 drops
CYA= approx 120ppm

Checked fill water-
FC= .25
TC= .5
PH= 7.2
TA= 120ppm
CYA= 0

The 1" quick dissolving tabs I was using prior to switching to BBB were Trichloro-s-Triazinetrione= 99%

What would cause the TA test to turn pale yellow and never red?
It appears that the pool water can't absorb anymore Borax as there is a small amount of residual on the pool floor picked up by my Rover - should I continue to keep the PH up with it?
Would it make sense to dump say 30-50% of the water or is it all or none?
Lastly - how do I change my profile, it says I can't access?

Thank you all for the help - even if it's bad news. If nothing else it is a lesson learned for the future.

[psciotti]

I know this is getting old...even for myself. At this point I could teach a whole class on what not to do!

Water (fingers crossed) actually looks like it's heading in right direction. I can see my Rover in the low end and down the slope.

FC=5+ (not far off)
TC=8-10
PH= 7
TA= Still will only turn pale yellow?? Bizarre
CYA= 120

Took the heater and Nature2 out of the flow.

We'll see

[PoolDoc]

I wouldn't worry too much about the TA right now. Focus on getting your pH to stay above 7.2.

And, if you haven't added polyquat, DO SO TODAY.

Because copper may still be present, we can't (shouldn't) run the chlorine up high again. But because it may NOT be present, we can't count on it to control the algae. You can use polyquat to bridge the gap, and keep your pool algae free while we get rid of the copper. It will ALSO help you filter stuff out, like the debris you're having.

Borax note: borax can be slow to dissolve, but your pool water will hold WAY more borax than you have added. If it's borax, vacuum it up, and it will dissolve. If it's not borax, vacuum it up and then clean your filter.

[psciotti]

I'm almost there.... the water has cleared about 75%! I just did a water reading and questions:

FC = 5+
TC = 8-10 range
TA = almost turning red

PH = 8.2++ PH has spiked and it even turned blue in the vial after a minute. Should I let it alone or work it back?

Also, the Polyquat for maintenance on my pool (15150 gal) is 6oz 1x per week. At $21 per quart do you think I can go with 4oz the 2x per week you mentioned? Thinking this because my FC/TC is still high.

Thank you again, and again, and again

[PoolDoc]

Hi Psciotti;

Glad it's looking better, but don't relax yet.

+ Continue letting your chlorine drop, but not below 1.0 at any time.
+ 4oz 2x a week is OK, as long as there's no sigh of algae.
+ See what the pH is tomorrow; try to get it below 8.0 -- I'm afraid of any remaining copper coming out and staining things.

Once your pH is normal, and your copper seems to be gone, we'll have to work out how you're going to run with high CYA. There are two choices. You can run high chlorine, which requires a DPD-FAS testkit (sorry, maybe you've gotten one -- I forget) OR you can run 5 - 10 ppm chlorine PLUS small doses of sodium bromide to create a free bromine residual.

[psciotti]

Don't think I will relax till after this weekend. Between the pool and the rest of the to do list I'm a busy bee. Anyway, this am we are at 90% clear and the water is testing out pretty good

FC - 5+ but looking slightly better
PH - 8
TA - 120+- finally hit a light red color on drop #12... no more yellow
CYA - 120+-

I'll continue to watch it like a hawk - now is there something I can shoot into the atmosphere to guarantee sunshine?

Thanks for all the help and BTW you must be very proud of the accomplishments of your 2 boys - obviously the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. I have one on his way to college in the spring on scholarship (hence the grad party) and 2 great kids behind him. ~ Thanks Again

[PoolDoc]

Hope your weekend goes well!