Chlorine Locked?

[reesie]

I tested my pool again tonight with both the Taylor kit and the OTO kit. I actually got the same results with both kits.
fcl 1
tcl 3
ccl 2
ph 7.4
these were just from the Taylor
alk 140
cya 50
Is it possible we have almost conquered this? We actually started this last year and gave up and started again the first week in May, 2011.
With the readings the way they are right now, do I add more bleach ( We added 1 gallon last night) or should I go with non chlorine shock to try to get rid of the rest of the combined chlorine?
Or none of the above?

[waterbear]

Add bleach to 15 ppm and report your test results.

[Watermom]

Looks like you are gaining on it. Stay the course!

[aciam]

Hi Reesie - I just saw your post to my thread and I find it so interesting that we both used the CDX system ( as well as those oxidizer tablets) these last few years - even more evidence that the CDX is playing a role in why our conversions are not going as planned.

Every time I think I am gaining on my pool, it backfires. For example, I had a day when my FC was 5 and CC was 0.5 - and then the next morning it was 4 and 1. When I then added bleach ( to keep my FC high like is recommended) my FC only raised to 5 but my CC went to 6! It has happened again today. Very discouraging.

I read on another forum one person who said it took 2 months to convert. And I would rather not wait that long.

I have ordered the sodium percarbonate and will try it in a 2 gallon or so bucket at the recommendation of chem geek before I put it in the pool. At the same time, I am making preparations to do a drain and refill. This is a really busy week for me with work so nothing will happen quickly, but feel free to follow along on my posts - I will certainly let you know if I have any significant luck with the percarbonate! Hopefully your conversion continues to move in the right direction. aciam

[reesie]

I added 4 gallons bleach last night. I didn't get a chance to test until 1:00 pm today. It's not very sunny today.
OTO results:
fcl >5
tcl >5

Taylor:
fcl 15
tcl 15
ccl 0
ph 7.4
alk 140
cya 50
Another interesting note: We had a thunderstorm that knocked the current off. My husband went out to the pool to turn the pump back on and decided to take the cover off of the filter before he turned everything back on. Now, we just changed the sand on 5/29/2011 at the pool store's recommendation. The water has been completely clear since around 5/15/2011. There has not been any debris or algae anywhere in the pool. When my husband opened the filter, there was a bunch of gunk in the filter. Baqua-poop?
So, what next?
Change the sand, let the chlorine levels drop and swim?
or am I being too optimistic?

[reesie]

Here I go again. Just for curiosity I took a sample to the pool store (around 5:00 pm) and checked it again myself around 8:30 pm with the Taylor kit. We had another thunderstorm with heavy downpours. The readings changed a lot from this afternoon.
fcl 5 (pool store 3.8)
tcl 10 (pool store 9.8)
ccl 5 (pool store told me I didn't have any combined chlorine)
alk 140 (140)
cya 50 (40)
ph 7.4 (7.4)

Where do I go now? I was hoping I was through with the combined chlorine...especially when I still didn't have any at 1:00 pm this afternoon after adding the bleach last night.
or did the rain have anything to do with that?

[Watermom]

Stay the course for one more day and see if the CC is still no more than 0.5.

[reesie]

On 6/16/2011( Thurs.) I added 3 more gallons bleach to bring it above 15 ppm fcl around 9:00 pm.
Tested noon on 6/17/2011 (Fri.)
fcl 10
tcl 15
ccl
5

6:00pm
fcl 7.5
tcl 15
ccl 7.5
I didn't have any more bleach, all local stores were out! even checked the next town. They were out too. No shipments due until Sat. or Mon. They weren't sure which.
I put 3lbs. non chlorine shock in at 8:30 pm.
I bought calcium hypochlorite (65%) today since we are having a hard time finding bleach. I never knew there was a shortage of bleach!
I'm leaning towards draining and filling since nothing else seems to be working. The town water authority is not going to be happy.
We came home from work yesterday and found that our pump had burnt up so we had to buy a new pump. It doesn't appear to be our year!

6/18/2011
I tested:
Taylor kit: pool store:
10:00 am 12:00 noon
fcl 7.5 0.5
tcl 10 7.0
ccl 2.5 6.5
ph 7.2 7.2
alk 120 120
cya 30 20
th 120

I don't know what to do now? It doesn't seem to be getting better. The combined chlorine is not 25 like it was (if that reading was correct) but it's still not going away.

[chem geek]

It's too bad we don't yet know if sodium percarbonate will work at this late stage. Otherwise I'd suggest it. Does the pool store near you carry any small containers of ProTeam® System Support? Or can you order a small jar from The Chemistry Store. You could then try a small amount in a 2-gallon bucket of your pool water -- about 1/8th of a teaspoon -- to see if it can oxidize the CC.

Another alternative would be your own combination of sodium carbonate with hydrogen peroxide since sodium percarbonate is technically one part sodium carbonate with 1.5 parts hydrogen peroxide. By weight, 1 pound of sodium percarbonate is 0.675 pounds sodium carbonate and 0.325 pounds hydrogen peroxide. So you can use pH Up product or Arm & Hammer Super Washing Soda for the sodium carbonate. This would then be closer to 1/16th of a teaspoon of pH Up / Washing Soda. As for the hydrogen peroxide, you can easily get 3% solution from a drug store (though you probably have more concentrated as oxidizer for your pool, we don't know its concentration for sure). The amount needed is 1 teaspoon.

If you have FC from chlorine, then the hydrogen peroxide will neutralize that so we'll need to increase the dose accordingly. The rough rule-of-thumb is that a volume of 3% hydrogen peroxide neutralizes the same volume of 6% bleach. So for the 2 gallon bucket, 10 ppm FC gets neutralized by 1/4 teaspoon of hydrogen peroxide.

So let's make this simple and have you add pool water to a clean 2-gallon bucket. Wait one hour and then measure FC and CC. Add 1/8th of a teaspoon of pH Up / Washing Soda, mix, then add 2-1/4 teaspoons of 3% hydrogen peroxide and mix. Then wait for 1 hour. Then measure the FC and CC. Wait for 8 hours and measure again. Wait for 24 hours from your initial addition and measure again. This dosage is double the amount recommended by Orenda, but should tell us whether or not sodium percarbonate will work. You should definitely see the FC going to 0, but we'll see if the CC drops as well. If it does drop enough, then we'd add chlorine back into the bucket using 6% bleach, 1/4 teaspoon at a time, until FC registers again and make sure that CC doesn't return.

[PoolDoc]

In the earlier conversations I had with Chem_Geek regarding this situation, the possibility that you were breaking down stuff trapped on the filter came up. The fact that you had so much junk on the filter makes that possibility even more significant.

So . . . besides doing the 'chemistry experiment' above, you might want to
#1 - Change your sand, &
#2 - Use skimmer socks (Amazon link: Jed Industries 80-852 Pool Skimmer Sock )

BTW, if Chem_Geek's experiment works, you can get washing soda at Walmart, and can use Baquashok for the peroxide source. So the results may lead directly to a practical solution.