Dubosity's Thread: Lost in Cloudiness/Mustard Algae Hell

[Dubosity]

Hi, (and sorry for the REALLY long post but I'm unsure what background information is important, so I'm giving it all...or most of it anyway)
I've been reading everything on this website and must say that it is VERY affirming for me. I've had this gut feeling that too many chemicals were being recommended (to address the wrong things) by my local dealer AND by the contractor who comes occasionally to fix broken equipment. The pool's pH has always tended to run a bit high (7.6-7.8) and I've always said that it seems to "want" to be there and I don't think we should be fighting it. Until I found your site, my husband wasn't convinced that I was right and kept following the dealers recommendations to lower it. In addition, the dealer consistently reads our pH at 8.0, but I think they're over-reading the color or perhaps they're lighting is making it appear darker than what I see in natural light. Anyway...
A few weeks ago, our booster pump (for the Polaris) broke and it may have been a coincidence but after a couple of days (while waiting for the guy to replace the pump) the water became very cloudy. Online research recommended a clarifier, which we used, but it didn't help. At the time, my own testing indicated that all of the chemicals were at the right levels. (Of note: I have been using Taylor drop-testing for pH and TA but I get a weird color for chlorine testing, orange instead of the pinkish hues on the chart, so I would test chlorine with a strip - and stablizer, cuz I didn't have this test in my kit. I am now going to go out and buy a more extensive kit!) Dealer testing indicated: FC=3.0, pH=8.0, TA=150, CH=395, Stabilizer=100. We added Muriatic Acid and shocked the pool with liquid chlorine. The pool remained cloudy and we noticed that there was this silty brownish stuff settling on the steps and bottom of the pool. When brushed, it would plume up before settling back down. We thought it was just sandy silt perhaps mixed with pollen. When the pool guy came to replace the pump, he shocked it with liquid chlorine, added muriatic acid, AND used more clarifier. He never mentioned algae. The cloudiness cleared a little, over the next 3 days, but never totally cleared. We finally thought of algae because the filter, which we clean religously, now contained a TON of green silt. After thoroughly cleaning the filter, the pool actually did almost clear, but it was still a bit cloudy and the algae has started up again. Based on online research, I'm guessing that it is mustard algae and, based on dealer recommendation yesterday, we added 3 capfuls of Suncast Stop Yellow (99% sodium bromide), 2 gallons of chlorine, and muriatic acid. Dealer test results (yesterday) were: FC=5, pH=8, TA=100, CH=395, Stablizer=100. Today, the pool is still quite cloudy, though I'm not seeing the mustard algae signs. I tested the pH and it's reading off the charts! I feel like I'm on a rollercoaster ride here. How do I get this back under control??

[Watermom]

Hello and welcome. I wish you hadn't added that sodium bromide, ugh. That may complicate things. Your CYA is really high. In fact, test kits can't differentiate higher than 100, so in all reality, your CYA may be much higher than 100.

A few questions. What type of pool is this and what is the volume? What type of filter and what size pump do you have? What have you used in the past for your source of chlorine? Anything else you have added? Be specific --- not product names, but ingredients.

We're probably going to need to let Ben help you with this one since you added the Bromide. That makes this situation different than most people have and he will have the most info about how to handle this. But, he is kinda busy today and may not get to this for a bit. So, please sit tight. I'll let him know that we need him to jump in on this thread.

In the meantime, take a look at the following link:
http://www.poolsolutions.com/tips/on...mine-pool.html

Again, welcome. We'll help you get this cleared up!

By the way --- take a look at the Amazon link in my signature line below. We recommend the Taylor K-2006 or 2006C which is the same kit only with larger bottles of the most used reagents. This kit will do everything you need it to and will make your pool maintenance easier.

[PoolDoc]

Hi Dubious;

I'm on my way out the door, so I can't answer fully. But here are some quick points:

+ Do not trust your pH right now.
+ Go to Walmart or where ever and get a cheap OTO / phenol red test kit. If the OTO shows orange, your pH test is probably meaningless.
+ If Walmart has polyquat, get some ( Polyquat ) and use it. It's one of the few things that will help in your current situation, without risking making things worse.

. . . my wife is saying "you'll have to finish when we get back!"

. . . ben

[Watermom]

That is the only type of algaecide that we recommend. Do not buy anything other than that one. Some other types will complicate things and cause foaming problems and add other unwanted ingredients.

[Dubosity]

I cannot thank you enough for responding so quickly! I can't tell you what a relief it is to feel that I have real support out there. Truly...I'm moved to tears.

Watermom, you asked a few questions:
What type of pool is this and what is the volume? Outdoor (uncovered; in-ground, gunnite), ~30K gal.
What type of filter and what size pump do you have? The filter is a pleated, papery, upright, cylindrical cartridge (not sure if this is helpful, but I do know that the contractor said recently that he thought it was probably too small for the pool) - we clean it at least once/week; pump is 230 hp and ~15 amps.
What have you used in the past for your source of chlorine? I moved in 1 year ago and during that time have only ever used trichlor tablets and occasional liquid (unstabilized) chlorine.
Anything else you have added? Be specific --- not product names, but ingredients: The only thing other than what I've already mentioned is a couple months ago, we added a TA reducer, 93.2% sodium bisulfate.

I did go out today and purchase a Taylor CYA drop-test (to add to my K-2000 kit). It tested at 100 (at least that is when the black dot became just barely visible; the point at which I could not see it at all was 120 - I'm not sure which is the correct reading.

In case it helps: Today the pool is looking blue (no green tinge at all), but is still cloudy.

Thank you, again, for all your help!! I'll definitely check out those links.

[Dubosity]

And thank you, Ben, for taking the few moments you had to respond! I'll check and see if Walmart has the Polyquat. Is the OTO/phenol red different than the phenol red reagent that comes in the Taylor test kit?

Also: I don't know if this is significant, but I've NEVER been able to get an accurate chlorine reading. I do know that right now it is really, really high (since we just added 2 gals yesterday).

Ugh. I had a bad feeling about adding the Yellow-Out and I did it anyway. When will I learn to trust my gut?

[PoolDoc]

Just got back, trying to hurry through things and get users upgraded and posts moved.

But . . . Taylor pH test is fine -- however you do NEED the OTO chlorine test. It's not very precise, but it's very dependable. And, given your difficulty with chlorine readings, we need the info from a DEPENDABLE test.

Ben

[Dubosity]

Hello again,
I was able (finally) to find the OTO chlorine test. It is definitely an orange result...and it has stayed orange even after 5 minutes. (Does this mean my combined chlorine is also really high?)
I cleaned the filter this morning. It had a lot of green in it, but not quite as much as previously.
The pool looks very blue, no green tinge, and pretty clear (though still just a bit cloudy in the deep end). I do see about 6 circular spots of what I believe is mustard algae right in the middle of the shallow end; when I brushed them, they plumed up and dispersed.

I could not find Polyquat, without other ingredients (like clarifier) added. :-( I went to 3 different stores...Walmart, Lowes, and Pinch-A-Penny pool supply. Any suggestions? Do you think I still need it?

I await your response with bated breath. :-)
Thank you!!

[Dubosity]

One more question: Is it safe to swim?

[PoolDoc]

Orange just means your chlorine / bromine is high -- doesn't give you any info about what kind. However, under your circumstances it's probably mostly "free".

As long as you keep it high and your clarity is increasing and the spots are getting smaller and there's no 'green' on the filter . . . you can probably just maintain chlorine levels and let the rest go.

Can you swim safely? Yes.

But . . . those levels may be hard on swimwear. So wear old swimsuits, or if your fences are high enough, you can skip them altogether. The chlorine won't hurt skin. It may be irritating to your eyes (or not) -- won't hurt to find out -- just don't open them underwater if it is.

But, go ahead and get a Taylor kit (Amazon link in sig), since you've still either got to drain to lower CYA OR run sustained high levels of chlorine to compensate for the CYA. If you haven't read the "Best Guess" page (link in sig) yet, it would be a good idea to do so.


Ben