Newbie question - would we be better off to drain and start over?

[RockheadedMama]

We have a 28,000 gallon, in-ground, gunite pool, with cartridge filtration at the house we rent. We have spent more than $300 in the last 15 days and are worse off than when we started. We have had our water tested at the pool place daily. Today our test results are: FC 2.0; TC 2.0; CC 0.0; pH 7.4; alkalinity 100 ppm; cyanuric acid 150 ppm; total dissolved solids are 1100 ppm.

When we started we had green algae. We took in a water sample every day and followed, to the letter, all the recommendations of the pool guy at 2 different pool companies. At about day 3, one of the recommendations was to use floc. We were told to vacuum the stuff off the bottom of the pool the next morning -- which we did. We did not know we were supposed to "vacuum to waste". Before we started to vacuum, the water was clear on top with fluffy dark green stuff on the last 2" of the bottom. After we vacuumed, we had lots of tiny particles in the water. We took another water sample to the pool people and they said to add soda ash, along with shocking the pool. After adding the soda ash, the particles became lighter green, but are still there. Since then, we have used several different brands of clarifers, all according to directions. We have seen only the slightest bit of change. Every day, at least twice a day, we change the filter out and thoroughly clean it, and we vacuum every day. Today, we have finally, for the first time since using the floc, turned off the pool pump and are trying to see if these superfine particles will settle to the bottom or not. (We have also used double socks on the sump basket except of course, when vacuuming.) The filter does catch green, just not enough to make any real difference. The socks also catch enough to color the socks, but not enough to make a difference in the water.) The pool is still extremely cloudy. The above listings are our chems for today. I just want to be able to use the pool. Surely 2 weeks is too long for this problem not to be solved. Can anyone tell us what to do to be able to use the pool? (My husband finally understands he has to keep the chlorine tablets in the little floating thing - so - if we can get it back to normal, we don't think we'll have any more problems.) I'm going to try to post pics in the pic gallery. Don't know if I have permission to do that.

[Watermom]

First --- welcome to the forum!

Next ---- stay out of that pool store! They are compounding your problems by having you add all these things. With a CYA of 150 (assuming that is even right since most tests can't differentiate past 100), you don't have anywhere near enough chlorine in your pool. Higher CYA requires higher chlorine. (Take a look at the Best Guess Chart linked in my signature below.) Tell hubby not to put any more tabs in your floater. Those tabs are trichlor and are adding more and more CYA and yours is already WAY too high!

You have two choices.
1. Run higher than normal chlorine levels per the Best Guess chart.
2. Do a partial drain and refill and try to lower that CYA level to something more manageable. Do NOT totally drain your pool however as it can pop out of the ground, especially if you live someplace with a high water table. You can probably safely drain 1/2 to 2/3 of your water. Sometimes if the CYA is really high, it takes a couple of partial drains and refills to get the CYA level under control. This is a large volume pool. You may not want to have that expense of more water. Your call. (If it were my pool, I would do the partial drain and refill.)

Regardless of which option you choose, no more trichlor pucks, nor dichlor powder for this pool. Use regular bleach or liquid chlorine for your pool. Depending on what your calcium hardness reading is (not listed above), cal-hypo may be an option.

Get a good test kit so you don't have to depend on a pool store. We recommend the Taylor K-2006 or 2006C. If you order it from Amazon through the link in my signature line, the Pool Forum makes a little money.

Also, read on our sister site --- Pool Solutions. (Again, link is below.)

Let us know which option you want to do and then somebody here can help you get this pool under control!

[PoolDoc]

Thanks, Watermom.

Rockheaded, you asked, "Surely 2 weeks is too long for this problem not to be solved?"

The answer is, actually, no, 2 weeks & $300 on a 30,000 gallon pool is about right for people to get frustrated enough to come here and follow the BBB Method. We even have a name for what's happened to you (coined by CarlD, like "BBB Method" and many of our other special terms): "You've been Pool-Stored!". We can tell you how to fix it. It won't be too hard or expensive, but also it won't be very quick, unless your filter is in really good condition and sized better than average. But, our methods will sound really weird if you've spent much time drinking the Koolade at pool stores.

Regardless, you're going to need a lot of (I coined this one ;-) P.O.P., or "Pool Owner Patience". The reason is your pool store "goo" has actually made things worse. In particular, in overdoses like yours, the floc and all the clarifiers tend to make stuff float around and become harder to filter, unless you use it -just--exactly--the--right--way-. Using multiple doses of multiple clarifiers is not the right way.

Anyhow, besides POP, here's what you need:

1. Remind yourself daily: "If the pool store wins, I lose. If I win, the pool store loses." $300 is more than you would have spent on the whole pool season, using the BBB method.

2. Unless you plan to do a 100% drain and refill, you must get a K2006 or another DPD-FAS test kit. (I think LaMotte has one finally). With your stabilizer levels, you are going to need to run chlorine levels higher than other kits can measure. (This is not bad: with high stabilizer and high chlorine, you'll be able to add chlorine just 1x or 2x per week, and have it last. And, your overall chlorine costs will go down. Personally, I'd try to fix it rather than drain and refill -- but that's your call. See #8 below for a caution about draining.)

3. Whether you drain or not, do NOT take any more pool store chemical advice. (See #1 above!).

4. Meanwhile, add 10 gallons of plain unscented 6% (check the label!!) chlorine bleach to your pool in the evening -- this evening if you can. If you go to Walmart, pick up some teststrips or an OTO kit (drops turn yellow) to use till you get your K2006. Repeat nightly, till you can hold a 10+ppm level through the day. High chlorine levels will kill the algae, and in many cases, may help destroy the excess clarifier. Ignore the strange looks from the cashier when you check out with 30 bottles of bleach and 5 boxes of borax. (And, as Watermom noted, no more trichlor / dichlor / stabilizer!)

5. You can also buy and add 2 boxes of borax, and add them SLOWLY to your skimmer with the pump running -- do NOT let the skimmer get choked. (Borax can 'freeze' and will take forever to dissolve if it does.)

6. Do go back to the pool store that 'owes' you the most, and beg or buy a small amount of DE filter powder -- a coffee can full is enough. Go home, and with the filter running, pour it into a skimmer (it won't choke). Then, go the the pool return nearest the pump, and watch. If you see a white cloud (DE powder) come back into the pool, your filter needs work. If not, you are probably OK. (If the DE stays in the filter, it will help catch all the stuff that's stuck in your pool because of the clarifier overdoses. But, your filter will stop up faster.)

7. Be patient. Gullibility (not your fault -- pool chemical companies provide consumers AND dealers a lot of misinformation) and impatience build pool store 'goop' sales. NO MORE GOOP! Do not try to 'fix' your stabilizer (unless you drain and refill), your calcium, your alkalinity or your pool ANYTHING except your chlorine and pH levels.

8. If this sounds like too much work and too slow, you can drain and refill UNLESS the ground around your pool is wet. In wet ground, gunite pools can float like a boat, right out of the ground! If you are in the tornado zone, and have just received a bunch of rain, do NOT drain unless your pool is on the top of a hill. If you do drain, check your filter first, and fix it if needed BEFORE you drain.

9. Let us know how it goes.

Ben

PS. I inadvertently deleted your email address from your user account, when I was checking it, b4 upgrading it. I had to put a dummy address back in, but you'll need to replace it. Once I get the mail-side of the new forum software working, your user account will get kicked into the "no valid email" group automagically, the first time you subscribe to a thread, and the email bounces.

[CarlD]

Let me add a few things to Ben's advice:
1) If you have to use strips, the best are by Hach and LaMotte, the ones that measure about 6 things: TC (total Chlorine), FC (Free Chlorine), pH, CH (Calcium Hardness), T/A (total alkalinity), and CYA/Stabilizer. The TC is useless but the FC works fairly well and goes to 10ppm. The pH is tough to read and a cheapo OTO kit works better for pH. CH, T/A and CYA are very tough to read so don't rely on them too much, but they will give you a fair idea. FC is the best and easiest to read, especially if it's deep purple (Means your FC is 10 or above).

2) With the DE I'd like Ben to look again...it's a cartridge filter and I'm under the impression that DE works in DE and sand filters, but not carts. Ben will correct me if I'm wrong. (Several of us use a little DE in our sand filters to improve filtration, not a lot, but between 1/3 and 1 cup, depending on the water pressure).

[RockheadedMama]

Thank Goodness! I couldn't find my thread until just now! I'm so happy! Doing a happy dance!

Thank you thank you thank you for your responses and help.

Okay, by great coincidence - on Sunday evening we put in 10 1-gallon containers of 6% Clorox (unscented). (DH says the generic at the store didn't say what %, so he bought the unscented Clorox. I told him he did good. ;o) and 1/2 cup of already dissolved (in tap water) Borax. I use Borax in everything here (clothes washing, dish washing, toilets, etc.) as the water is so hard (San Antonio, TX - and - we are in severe drought.) Then, Monday night we put in 11 @ 1.42-gallons of Clorox and, another 1/2 cup of Borax. (I was scared of putting in too much - and something here on the forum said to increase it gradually...) The water has improved by at least 30%. We can actually barely make out the outlines of the vacuum head when vacuuming!

Today, my DH finally located a Taylor kit. I cannot find the kit number on it anywhere. It says on the front "Complete Poolcare DPD Test Kit -- Free & Total Chlorine or Bromine, pH, Acid & Base Demand, Total Alkalinity, Calcium Hardness, Cyanuric Acid. But, the little plastic tester thingy shows the chlorine only up to 5. But, then again, Dr. Bartel, my bio-chem prof for my non-science major requirement class, said that while I have a great mind, it really isn't structured for the sciences. So, I can't figure out how to get a reading of 30. Taylor is already closed until tomorrow morning. Meanwhile, the scary white noise in my head is deafening.

(btw, I said cart filter - it has pleated paper like material, so I assume it is a cart filter.) My DH brought home a big bag of the powder to put on the filter, but I was afraid it would make it too stiff or hard to get out this super fine stuff. Our pressure is 28#

DH is off to the store to get another 10 gallons of Clorox and 2 boxes of Borax and we'll put that in. He is trying to make it to the pool store for the DE powder too. Then, hopefully, I will learn how to read the test results.

[CarlD]

OK, if it's a cylinder of paper, like the inside of an oil filter, it's a cartridge. If it look like overlapping fan blades, it's a DE filter. And if it's full of sand it's either really dirty or it's a sand filter!

You can't read an FC of over 5 with a DPD test kit. What we suggest is an FAS-DPD test kit, and FAS-DPD is not the same thing at all as a DPD test kit. If you have LOTS of chlorine, your DPD may read "zero" because it's actually bleached out! The other tests in the kit should be fine. You can order just the FAS-DPD test from Taylor if you want.

Carl