Gunite leaching minerals through plaster?

[hausfrau]

I have posted on this site before regarding my new pool.
1. after two weeks of operation white plaster started to have full coverage mottled stain. It is light brown to green to black. Worse in some areas..better in others (like top step of pool.)
2. Does not rub off, scrub off, come off under fingernail.
3. Is not moved by chlorine or bleach - yes I got the test kit from Amazon and did follow directions from this site to keep a high chlorine level for three days. Nata.
4. Now, it WILL come off if sprayed with a very light mix of 10% m acid and water. But comes back. Only tested this in the hot tub area.
5. Pool store stumped.
6. Pool guy stumped.
7. Pool builder stumped.
8. No it is not metals. Had feeder water and pool water tested. 0.2 for copper. That is all.
9. Water looks lovely and has always been perfectly clear.
10. I hate this pool and am very upset I paid to have this green monster installed into my yard. What should have been a joy is a constant cause of stress.

My new idea - the gunite sat there curing while we were in full swing of pollen from the trees. If the plaster folks had not washed the gunite off properly - since this pool is under Live Oak trees, is it possible I am seeing minerals leaching from the gunite that can cause stains which are almost impossible to remove?

[waterbear]

I have posted on this site before regarding my new pool.
1. after two weeks of operation white plaster started to have full coverage mottled stain. It is light brown to green to black. Worse in some areas..better in others (like top step of pool.)
2. Does not rub off, scrub off, come off under fingernail.
3. Is not moved by chlorine or bleach - yes I got the test kit from Amazon and did follow directions from this site to keep a high chlorine level for three days. Nata.
4. Now, it WILL come off if sprayed with a very light mix of 10% m acid and water. But comes back. Only tested this in the hot tub area.
5. Pool store stumped.
6. Pool guy stumped.
7. Pool builder stumped.
8. No it is not metals. Had feeder water and pool water tested. 0.2 for copper. That is all.
9. Water looks lovely and has always been perfectly clear.
10. I hate this pool and am very upset I paid to have this green monster installed into my yard. What should have been a joy is a constant cause of stress.

My new idea - the gunite sat there curing while we were in full swing of pollen from the trees. If the plaster folks had not washed the gunite off properly - since this pool is under Live Oak trees, is it possible I am seeing minerals leaching from the gunite that can cause stains which are almost impossible to remove?

Your description of the stain is either copper or algae. You reported that a vitamin c and RUBBING removed it. Vitamin c works on metal stains chemically so no rubbing is needed. I asked you to hold a trichlor tablet on a stained area and report what happens. You did not. That would be a diagnostic test for organics and/or algae. The colors you describe sound more like algae than mineral (metal) stains. Pollen floats so it would stain your waterline but not the underwater areas of the pool. It is possible that you have "black algae" which is algae that grows into the plaster and is very difficult to remove. It usually gets its start under conditions where the FC is not maintained high enough for the CYA and your daughter's pool party that seems to start this problem is a red flag for this.

Please post a full set of test results and let us see what the water conditions in your pool are right now. You should be posting test results in every one of your posts so we can monitor the changes in your water chemistry as you try and deal with the problem.
Without that info there is not much we can really do for you.

You have posted no test results here and only one set in your other thread here:
http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=9970

[PoolDoc]

Let me add: you need to include ALL the chemicals added to the pool (by brand name and approx quantities), ALL the devices attached TO the pool, and ALL the special gizmos, if any, used on, with, by, near, or in, the pool.

Also, include a time line for the pool, from construction till now.

Waterbear is right: this sounds a LOT like metals. But fresh IS a "metal magnet", so if metals were in the pool, they might well be OUT now and ON your plaster instead.

The colors sound a lot like copper. Fresh copper stains on plaster will turn black if chlorinated just the 'right' way.

PoolDoc

[hausfrau]

Tested for copper. There is none. Period. Have not added anything other than chlorine or m acid. Period.

[waterbear]

Tested for copper. There is none. Period. Have not added anything other than chlorine or m acid. Period.

I still suspect algae. Please post a full set of test results! Also, try holding a trichlor puck on the stain for about 15 minutes and report what happens.


This quote from your other thread is why I suspect algae:

Daughter had sleepover and many girls playing in pool over this weekend.

Sunday, pool started getting covered in what appears to be a dark green stain. Does not rub off AT ALL.

Stains are on bottom two stairs..bottom of pool (not as dark in shaded end but still there) seems to be about 6 inches from surface of pool and all over bottom.
This is characteristic of an algae problem! Textbook, in fact!

Can actually see where one of the girls sat in the spa and on a step...this is puzzling.
Not uncommon with algae at all!

I did read a post on metals in pool water and crushed vitamin C in a sock. IT WORKED ON THE STAIN WITH LOTS OF RUBBING.
This is inconclusive for metals but in line with algae stains on fresh plaster! Next step in stain determination is the trichlor test I have repeatedly asked you to perform.
I got this "metal out" product from pool store and according to directions for my size pool, (14000) etc added that to the pool last night.

This morning still the same.
Once again, sounds more like algae than metal!
My fear: could the gunnite be showing through or could this be a plaster problem? So scary when one has invested in an expensive pool and now it is not as it should be.
Sounds here like you are looking for something to blame the builder for instead of dealing with your pool and learning how to care for it.


The installer of the pool is very baffled. He has been installing pools out in these parts for over 10 years (well water) and has never seen this. Even he is very concerned. HELP!
Builders BUILD pools, they do not take care of them. It is a completely different skill set. I have met very few builders who actually KNOW how to take care of a pool and have even come across a few that actually gave such bad advice or did such stupid things as loading a skimmer basket and pump basket up with trichlor tabs to change a green frog pond into a pool that equipment was damaged! The latter happened in my own pool, btw, and the builder ended up having to replace my filter once I caught it!

Then, in your own words, once again in your other thread:

Waterbear & sunofthebeach. Thanks for your posts. I should clarify. What killed the algea in the spa was not the acid but a shock to the spa.

As far as testing for metals and finding none, that is immaterial. If the metals have deposited as stain they would not be IN the water and would not test. Your vitamin C test was not conclusive for metals so please do the trichlor test above and post a full set of test results if you want some help with this. It really is a waste of time otherwise.

You said that you have added nothing but chlorine and acid but in your other thread about this problem you stated differenltly:

Tested for copper. There is none. Period. Have not added anything other than chlorine or m acid. Period.

Previously in this thread:

http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=9970

I got this "metal out" product from pool store and according to directions for my size pool, (14000) etc added that to the pool last night.

Which is it?

So as PoolDoc said, we also need a full history of ALL chemicals you have added if you want help with this problem.

We are not asking for a lot and really can't do much without this basic info. You have only posted ONE set of test results since you started posting here. You should have a new set of test results with every post you make.
Otherwise it is just a waste of our time and yours. Sorry if this seems harsh but all you seem to want to do is complain about your "problem", do things on your own like dump a lot of acid in the pool as if you found a miracle cure (when all you did was shorten the life of your plaster and possibly damage it) and not give us the info we need to try and help you. Without a test result and chemical history and a few basic test procedures there is little that can be done.

[CarlD]

Waterbear is right.

It is impossible for us to help you if you will not give us the information we need to diagnose your problem. Everything that goes wrong with a pool has a cause and is, in some way, reversible but not without sufficient data.

Ultimately, this pool is yours and therefore your responsibility. We can give you the benefit of our advice based on our wide ranging experience (There are a lot of knowledgeable people here who want to help), but whether or not you take it is up to you.

Two of our most deeply experienced professionals, PoolDoc and Waterbear have both told you that we need test results. We need them. Both have many, many years in the business and PoolDoc has nearly single-handedly revolutionized pool care to make it easy and affordable to home owners.

But for them to help you, you must help yourself, and it starts by providing us with vital test data.

One thing we won't do, none of us, is tell you what you want to hear when it doesn't fit the facts. We don't do that. If you are convinced you have a metals problem despite all contradictory evidence, we aren't going to suggest you treat for metals. If you choose to do that, again, it's your pool and you can do what you like, but that's up to you, not us.

Nobody here wants you to be miserable in your pool--that's not why we all do this.

I wish you the best of luck.

CarlD, Moderator

[PoolDoc]

Hey guys;

You need to give her a chance to do her part. She knows what she needs to do (test and give info) -- let her do it, and hold off on all the posting till she has a chance to do so.

Thanks,

Ben